Brian Roebuck
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Caver
Caving - the one activity that really brings you to your knees!
Posts: 2,732
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Post by Brian Roebuck on Sept 13, 2006 5:35:17 GMT -5
Funny you should mention that Dr Beaner. About three years ago, I had a lengthy conversation with a French guy that told me about when he and a couple of friends designed a liquid-cooled rack and did a 2,000 meter rap out of a hot air baloon in France. Apparently, it was partially sponsored by a BIG French equipment company. Am I the only one here that has heard this? I hadn't heard about it but I don't doubt they did it already. Now all we have to do is do it better and higher. I doubt their rope is as strong as our PMI etc and there is a limit to how much rope you can hang and expect it to stay together. The long rope and weight of a caver will eventually begin to push the strength limits especially when it is bounced on.
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Post by eyecave on Sept 14, 2006 1:02:15 GMT -5
rapping' outta balloons makes me smile and my skin crawl ;D........rapping outta a chopper likewise ;D............a slow moving airplane makes my stomach crawl and me frown .........don 't get me wrong!......if you wanna do a SHORT ENOUGH rap outta the back of any slow movin' thingy .....i am your man......but....i ain't gonna do a long one without doin' a coupla short ones first!!! ....... back on topic...i am certain the length of rope was where the 4200 foot figure came from.....one bolt to another....4200 feet....NOT elevation change.....any disputers? .....seemsaminorpoint2disinfo.... ... onanthrtpc........arresting devices (all of them only equal one of the four).....tandems (2ways=1),.....use no spacers.....thats..another way......whats that last one? .....go on....make my day.......tell me what it is?......whrsthgts?.....
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Post by madratdan on Sept 16, 2006 11:27:43 GMT -5
i am saying that meebeeee a friction device of some design that only requires that you tighten it up might be easier to manage in such a sit.......it also might not work without some unacceptable comprimises because of the physics....anybody got an idea?....i don't....i am just gonna keep my open end up and go slowly........ How about a rack design that mechanically links the bars together and would be able to control the spread of them? That way you wouldn't have to add or subtract bars, but adjust them with a lever of some sorts The design would have to include a mechanical advantage to adjust the bars easily under heavily weighted conditions. You could still use spacers so as not to pinch the rope too tight.
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Post by eyecave on Sept 17, 2006 0:46:20 GMT -5
BRILLIA NT......if the bars were adjustable via some sort of lever and gear system and they were all connected so that one could engage them all with increasing effectiveness with increasing travel of the lever causing a different force to be exerted on each bar.....this last thing would eliminate the need for spacers.......yes.....that would work.......lets see......pelvic bones fracture at 1200 pounds of pressure....this system could generate rap falls that would generate that much force!......an idea this good is dangerous......lets speculate......
engaged gently this idea would work............but, if you lost your judgement you could rig in six bars open the lever to the lowest friction angle.....and leap off the clifftop..........falling down the rockface the wind sounds increase rapidly to a roar.....the rope sounds also increase in ways that imply too much speed...........
just as the bars begin to glow at the rope's contact point and as the sounds reach a crescendo you begin to move the lever.........a new sound begins and your speed lessends........as you near the ropes end, the excessive speed under control, you wonder about that weird hissing sound.......your attention is drawn to your rack.....you watch as the bars deform and warp the surface of the rope as you slow down......
at the bottom of the rap there is one awkward moment...a second where you inhale rope fumes for too long...where you twistand pull trying to stop the damage......when you finally have disengaged the rack from the melted marks scarred rope........do you tell the guys up top..simply...off rope......or do you tell them the truth?.........
one of the main problems is what to do with all the friction heat generated, an idea like this actually would probably allow too much control and too rapid raps for rope integrity!!!............
...your idea..a lever moving all the bars with different force being exerted on each bar by the same pulling of one lever......it would work....it would allow very controllable falls.............
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Post by eyecave on Sept 17, 2006 1:11:39 GMT -5
tonite, at pretagone, i had the opportunity to talk to members of thor 06......the first thing i was told was that elevation change was the 4200 figure...NOT ROPE LENGTH....gordon and i was wrong......
the final end of the rap was about 6 to 8 hundred feet away from the natural landing point and at least 200 vertical feet below where the bolt was set for the 04 rope lowering after the rope had been dropped onto the scree slope........and the same bolt where the tandem rap of 04 took place..... but not near the nose of the mountain.............
......and i was told that the slanted rope kicked your butt during the climb for the first 200 vertical feet and then it got easier as verticality began to be resumed.......four hour climbs.....
the rope was described as being a "steel cable" from the lip to the end and, with using spacers, five bars was what you started with...and,.... incrediably..it was what you ended with!.....this means something people.....and i think i know what it is....spacers create more control....and/or is it possible that rope stretch and the resulting decrease in rope diameter is that sensitively related to bar friction?......hmmmmmmmm..........(for those of you with a tendency to disagree..remember that the rope has been tensioned and tied off prior).....
and finally....24 days of clear skies, with 4 days of drizzle......70 degree temps....rope, in place for 10 days.......and....the rap was unbelievable.......slide show at TAG?.......
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guanonoggin
Beginner
Dude Caving
U.S. Caver Dude
Posts: 115
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Post by guanonoggin on Sept 17, 2006 6:23:51 GMT -5
Dude, That is some awesome detail we all have been waiting to hear man! It was a righteous rappel down 4200 feet fer sure. Your budz description makes it sound like all the slope is at the bottom though. That is way cool really. Better ride down and better Karma for record breaking rappels. Chucky
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Post by madratdan on Sept 21, 2006 10:43:37 GMT -5
.when you finally have disengaged the rack from the melted marks scarred rope........do you tell the guys up top..simply...off rope......or do you tell them the truth?......... Real men always fess up when they screw up. I'd wait and tell them when they hit the bottom.........no use pissing them off and ruining their ride. ;D one of the main problems is what to do with all the friction heat generated, an idea like this actually would probably allow too much control and too rapid raps for rope integrity!!!............ ...your idea..a lever moving all the bars with different force being exerted on each bar by the same pulling of one lever......it would work....it would allow very controllable falls............ But with my (yet to be designed and tested) rack, heat wouldn't be a problem............the bars are liquid cooled so you can go as fast as you want and not hurt the rope. With the proper attachments, you could make expresso at the bottom and not waste a bit of that heat you just created, from your Steve Sims style of repelling. Thanks for updating us, Eyecave.
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guanonoggin
Beginner
Dude Caving
U.S. Caver Dude
Posts: 115
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Post by guanonoggin on Oct 14, 2006 9:05:21 GMT -5
Team Thor, Dudes I know the Thor world record was a way cool rappel of a lifetime. The problem I got is Team Thor selling a load of DVDs considerin the BAD Karma connected to the rangers death up there man. It's way bad Karma to make money off of such a deal. "Let your conscience be your guide" dudes.
Chucky
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Post by Rebel Rouser on Oct 14, 2006 10:49:32 GMT -5
Where can we see the rest of the 400 copyrighted images? Their upcoming book. BTW, anyone besides me think that website is busier than the Kimball exit? kent "Or, you can wait until we post it on Ebay." Am I psychic or WHAT!? ;D ;D
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Post by eyecave on Oct 17, 2006 1:26:05 GMT -5
bad joke dirtman....funnin' about makin' money off "cavingactivities" on ebay iz verbotten.......cept for the liscensed dealers of caving gear that sell tharwaresthare.......... at least among cavers..........i was a little put off at never being given a copy of the slides a pro made while on the trip in 82........but.....the way it worked out i now understand why it was done........pros need to protect their interests!.......its all they got......... ....there is nothing wrong with making money off Thor....but, you will find that cavers just don't do that too easily........i personally have never thought of making money off anything i have ever done...i only wanted fame...........i have also considered keeping it secret desirable.. .........like yourself i have spent the money to go to Thor twice and to take a big chunk of time to do that..........i never felt i had to make money off either trip to make it worthwhile....we all have different motives for what we do and figuring out a way to pay for our adventures is ok by me.....as i see it the park will decide who goes and who don't.....just increases my odds if they let more people go....alrightbyme............. however.....i don't think you are gonna find that much interest willing topay that much cash......people who would have a rappeling interest are limited to a small group of poor and cheap students, past stupidents...or....students to be.....guys and girsl at a time of life where they might just as soon do somethingstupid as be a victum of something stupid.........not much oil in that well!.....yep.....self limiting iz what we call it in the healthcareindussssstreeeeeeeeeee..........yep.......i don't see the rush of orders....several hundred, if the price is right.....but masses and masses.....ha.....dreameeeeeeeeeeanonnnnnnnnnnnnn......now, if there were pix of you know what.....welllllllll....ahem.......... sides......ms paulinescott is just sittin' there waitin' for the park's justified share of whatever yha make.....soooooo, the park benefits......those geese get to breed, waddle, and crap all over the place for another year..and the "pet of the year" flourishes under the protection of the park.......the inuit kill their caribou....the rare things swim in the pools.....and the rapids and hundreds of unclimbed peaks exist unchallenged......... ..and cavers and climbers get to pay their share.....it don't get much better than that!.......does it?... . that was really ;nice of kenny and you guys to send the pix to philips sister of him made by those present just before his untimely end........her extended statements about her brothers untimely death fully illustrate the necessary adaptability of those who survive such personal tragedy....... . her mention of the elders of pangs acceptance of this death bodes well for the future perhaps.....
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guanonoggin
Beginner
Dude Caving
U.S. Caver Dude
Posts: 115
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Post by guanonoggin on Oct 17, 2006 17:25:06 GMT -5
Total coolness Off Rope, I am glad to hear that Karma smiles on Team Thor through Phillips sister. It's awesome to learn he died doing something he just had to do as part of his life of adventure. Dudes it's way tough for us to know how to feel about things if all the facts are not out there to scope out so I am psyched about knowing more of your Thor story and getting the right vibes instead of wrong ones. It would be righteous if you can share any DVD profits with Phillips family too.
Peace, Chucky
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Post by Rebel Rouser on Oct 18, 2006 22:56:39 GMT -5
Dude's,The Ebay thing was a joke. Not funny, but on par with everything else in this thread.
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Post by eyecave on Oct 25, 2006 0:30:52 GMT -5
. ..folks......the most reliable time to make a profit off an adventurous stunt is BEFORE you do it!! .............the idea iz what you are trying to sell.. :-/sigh..........jeez....does it never get better..... ......jeeeezzzz...........
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Post by eyecave on Nov 26, 2006 2:39:33 GMT -5
bad news big wall fans.......srt rappeling in auyuittuq national park is, for now, considered an "inappropriate activity" by the park and the inuits that manage it........i have been informed to cancel all future plans and preparations.......
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Post by Rebel Rouser on Nov 26, 2006 18:22:37 GMT -5
Dude, you're kidding,right? Totally bogus! Reckon they view rappelling now about the same way they view russian roulette. kent
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Post by eyecave on Nov 26, 2006 23:24:29 GMT -5
i wish i was kiddin'.......but i ain't.......the death of philip robinson ended srt raps in this area for the future....
......will it open within our lifetime?.......who knows.......
....what do you expect!.....a locally very well liked person dies doing something he should not have been doing.........so.......whaddaya do?.......you can't blame him...............SOLUTION.......don't allow the activity that caused it to happen in the first place!........
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Post by eyecave on Dec 2, 2006 1:52:23 GMT -5
HEY......CAVERS.......I GOT SENT AN EARLY EMAIL....... ......THE THOR PEAK AIN'T DEAD JUST YET!!!.........WE GOT A CHANCE.......the planning committee ain't met yet.......if we send emails to david.argument@pc.qc.ca (note the dot between david and argument, and thats a cue see...not a gee see....) and lobby for the park to allow rappeling we may be able to keep it open....please send your opinion concerning the recent death that occurred during the Thor 06 "the fix" expedition.....and whether or not this event should lead to the closure of Auyuittuq Park to rappeling...
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Post by Rebel Rouser on Jan 1, 2007 19:57:42 GMT -5
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Brian Roebuck
Site Admin
Caver
Caving - the one activity that really brings you to your knees!
Posts: 2,732
|
Post by Brian Roebuck on Jan 2, 2007 6:52:37 GMT -5
Yep those are nice photos Rebel. It is one big chunk of rock! I'm glad I didn't have to haul that rope anywhere!
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Post by Dee on Jan 8, 2007 15:36:14 GMT -5
It seems posts on the THOR thread of the forum get removed just as fast as posted. (MIA) The point being the 8 pages of various Thor Discussions have now become utter confusion.
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Brian Roebuck
Site Admin
Caver
Caving - the one activity that really brings you to your knees!
Posts: 2,732
|
Post by Brian Roebuck on Jan 10, 2007 6:41:56 GMT -5
It seems posts on the THOR thread of the forum get removed just as fast as posted. (MIA) The point being the 8 pages of various Thor Discussions have now become utter confusion. It is a rather jumbled mess now. Too bad the posts are no longer there but I am sure the members that posted and removed them later had good reasons to do so. I suppose it just isn't worth it to try to tell everyone what happened and just leave it at that. Too many people read things into what you might post and form strong often negative opinions. Does that help you understand things Dee?
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Post by Off Rope on Jan 10, 2007 8:17:48 GMT -5
Dr. Beaner,
I was on the expedition and I removed my post's at the request of Philip's family. If anyone wishes to discuss the expedition, in a positive, constructive, non-judgemental manner, you can e-mail me off list.
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