Post by Rebel Rouser on Aug 13, 2006 20:53:43 GMT -5
spacers have to be used because of rope weight.....
Well,I'll have to agree with eyecave except for the fact that I didn't use spacers at Mount Thor or on El Cap where I deliberately tried to maintain a out of control rappel. With no spacers I would consistently slow to a crawl or stop when I was not manipulating the rack. BTW, Hi Y'all! Cave on, Kent
Post by Rebel Rouser on Aug 14, 2006 11:05:55 GMT -5
As I recall, PMI 7/16 was around 8 lbs. per 100 ft. The '82 Thor rope had at least one extra core strand so it would be just slightly heavier. So 4000ft would be in the neighborhood of 320 lbs. Kent Thanks for the welcome, Dan!
Post by Rebel Rouser on Aug 14, 2006 17:38:41 GMT -5
Don't mind at all. I rapped over edge on a tail w/figure 8. Once in place I positioned the rack on rope. First 2 bars...easy....next bar you have to position feet on legs of rack and push while pulling rope with hands. When enough clearance is obtained then add bar and slide it into place. Repeat but this time place feet on rope and hands on rack legs.
I used a 7/16 stainless B.Lane rack with 24 inches of travel. Started rappel with 5 bars, went to 4 bars for 2800 ft and back to 5 bars for the last 500ft. During the upper part I spread the bars to full length and was almost in free fall for 1800 ft. It was surreal. As I fell at warp speed I leaned back and took the glove off of my right hand to get a sense of bar temp. To my surprise the bars were just warm on the ends and only saw higher temps where the rope came in contact with it. Kent
Hi Dee, no, I was not on '04 or '06 trip, only '82. Kent
For some odd reason I had the notion you may have been on this past trip to Mt. Thor. Thank you for the clarification Kent.
This is rather an engaging topic for discussion but the comments give the impression that details are being swept under the rug. Not many details concerning the expedition, the world record attempt, nor the unfortunate death of the park ranger are being revealed. It just leaves us all guessing.
:)hi kent.....great to see you on the site......i did the same thing at thor....that turning loose of the rope....and it was surreal man, you did not imagine that....it was really a real surreal reality!.............
i use spacers between 1-2 and 2-3 and i too released my control of the rack......did not do it at el cap....as the wind speed increased i got to a point where i realized that i had better grab the rope and so i regrabbed the rope...........geez, now we know how to protect people on long drops....cool......of course it only makes sense that the bars would gradually creep closer together as the descent continued if they were closely spaced.................also having spacers i usually start with five and end up adding two..........
i get on the main rope and get my rack onto the main rope a little different.....rap over using a regular rack on the tail....stop and tie off my rack and start putting the thor rack onto the rope while i am not attached to it....then after i have put on six bars and jammed them up tight i untie my reg. rack and rap VERY SLOWLY DOWN to where i can just clip a biner from the eye of the thor rack onto my seat harness main biner...ck that gate screw...&... is it twisted wrong, can i disengage the reg. rack?.........then i just rap on down till my weight is onto the thor rack and off of the short rack.....then you disengage yourself from the short rack and start having fun....
i think that adding a bar with a heavy rope is something that should be mentioned.....i have a very very hard time moving a 250 to 300 pound rope........kent?...if he said he can do it i have no doubt that he can add a bar on a heavy rope by bending the rack and moving the rope.....what i do is move my body from one side of the rack to the other and i also rely on the fact that metal will bend......thats how i add bars.......one last minor point......this should be practiced until it can be done while you are still sliding down the main rope..........
Last Edit: Aug 14, 2006 21:04:00 GMT -5 by eyecave
Post by Rebel Rouser on Aug 14, 2006 21:23:21 GMT -5
Hi Dan, ya ain't lettin your rack get rusty are ya? ;D 60!?!? Good Lord! Are ya gettin crochety? I hear that comes with age. I'm NEVER growing old! I'm gonna stay Smokey's age.. On El Cap I was trying to recreate conditions surrounding the CO. caver's death sans spacers. Results were that I could not maintain free fall (out of control) conditions without my hands manipulating bar spacing. It is my personal opinion that the CO. caver died because spacers were on his rack. I say this believing that he had 4 bars engaged at arrival point. Maybe someone can clarify this. I would say this to people involved with caving, climbing etc. There is a lot of personality involved with expeditions and the like, never the less if an accident has occurred in the sport then we owe it to ourselves and future cavers to examine and learn from our mistakes. BTW, Dan , miss your posts at the other joint! Kent
Post by Rebel Rouser on Aug 14, 2006 21:29:45 GMT -5
Dan mentioned metal bending. At the top of thor when I had placed the rack on rope, the rope did not really bend through the rack as much as the rack bent around the rope. A bit disconcerting to say the least! Kent
hey kent......i am currently actually doing a survey that will effect and address that very question you have raised .....you are a psychic my friend and this proves that like minds dwell in the same places...........email me your password to tagnet and i will start to lurk there........s or f dld...........
Post by Karstscience on Aug 15, 2006 18:01:23 GMT -5
The website doesn't shed much light on the topic. Who actually completed the rappel and ascent? All of them? What about the situation with the park ranger? Who loaned Robinson gear or did he have his own?
Tim White - Are you still expecting a report of events surrounding the expedition to be forthcoming?
Post by Rebel Rouser on Aug 15, 2006 18:54:45 GMT -5
Tim, I come by yakkin naturally. After all I am a 'cracker'.. ;D I went to the website. Not too elaborate on the info. In fact it's downright brief. I'm just wondering how the '82 record could be beat without going down the talus slope at the BASE of Thor? It isn't like we left a lot of mtn. out . We had a mile of rope.There was some discussion of doing what the '06 crew has evidently done. I'm not sure why we nixed the idea...rock fall,contrived,etc. I guess this means a reassessment of drop lengths everywhere! I also reckon this means Smokey has the rappel record established on Mt. Arrowsmith, B.C. Questions, questions............Kent
yep.....the j rappel concept.....hauling the rope out so it ain't exactly vertical was the idea in 04.....ken, as you know the rap could have been continued by lowering the first guy and or affixing him to the rope at the bottom and him just walking down as the rope was played out from the top...
jamie wanted to haul the rope laterally over to the nose.....just where we started and ended the talus slope climb up that 1000 feet or so to the base of the sheer wall rap.....i don't know if they went straight down, the easy way, or carried to rope over to the nose.......
and you are right.....smokey did do that rap... ....
now.....we gotta decide how we define the length of the rap.......do we consider the vertical relief as the length of the rap or the length of the rope?.......i think we have to base the distance of the rap on the vertical relief achieved......that kinda limits what the record could become.......i mean theoretically one could climb up a fire tower (luminary) with an 8000 foot long rope or so and rap from there to the valley and set a world record without leaving TAG......hmmmmmm,.....mebbe that ain't such a bad way to do it.....anyway....what do you think people?