L Roebuck
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Post by L Roebuck on Jul 25, 2006 9:54:32 GMT -5
Not sure if this has been declared ' Official ' yet but....the latest news on the caving grapevine is .... July 23, 2006 Chuck Constable may have broken the current World Record for a Single Rope Rappel at approximately 4,200 feet on Mount Thor, Auyuittuq National Park, Baffin Island, Nunavut, Canada (north of the Arctic Circle) the rest of the Team Thor members may also rappel Mount Thor! Other World Records the team might attempt to set on this expedition are the Longest Tandem Rappel, the Longest Single Rope Ascent, and the Longest Single Rope Tandem Ascent. Additional Information: Coordinates: 66 32 15N, 65 19 05W Auyuittuq National Park Wikipedia: Mount ThorStation R: 1982 Mt.Thor Expedition Baffin Island, CanadaTeam Thor Expedition Website |
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Post by eyecave on Jul 26, 2006 0:33:04 GMT -5
:-Xmy personal congratulations to team thor ......its great to see them taking it back from the british, whose record keeping group (guiness) refused the previous thor record's claim's...guiness might still continue this british attitude and refuse the concept of a "j" rappel.....
THOUGH.....the brits actually counted the vertical relief that occurred over a mile from the base of angel falls in saying that the british group who did angel falls beat thor 82....like they play their rope out over a mile as they hiked away from the base of the waterfall...
we didn't do that tandem rapp thing in 82....whoa, that would be cool!.....i have done tandem raps with a long rack, but only a coupleahundred feet at most...wow.....4000+, i gotta go bak................
chuck is a great guy to do the first rappel....these guys got cooperative weather and didn't have the hold ups present at thor 04, they remained ahead of schedule on the whole trip......
that distance of 4200 is very close to what was estimated when jamie and i were trying to justify the last thor expedition.....if the rope is either played out over the remainder of the slope from where you first land or the rappeller just continues down, or a person is stationed up the rope a bit and the rappeler is lowered down....a number of ways could be used...the distance from the mountain top to the stream is 5000 feet.....800 or 600 feet elevation from the stream to the "nose" of the scree slope or about the same distance by just continuing straight down from the 82 landing point.....either way works out to around 4000 to 4400 feet....the nose is 1000+ feet laterally and straight down is less than that by a factor of 2 at least, and hence more preferable.......thus... the "j" rappel concept of world records is intro'ed....
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L Roebuck
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Post by L Roebuck on Jul 26, 2006 9:38:35 GMT -5
Thanks for all the info Dan!
Do you know what the 'old' World Record Rappel was?
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Post by eyecave on Jul 26, 2006 13:35:02 GMT -5
well..........the brits rapped angel falls, which is around 2700'.......since thor was 3300 we thought we beat them........i contacted guiness and got a letter back curtly explaining that they would not recognize our claim BECAUSE IT ENCOURAGED DANGEROUS ACTIVITIES!!!.........then, they published the record, due to a letter from a local caver, and gave credit to steve holmes..........
LATER they expanded the claim for angel falls to 3400 feet which is the total elevation of the waterfall from thelip to where the water joins a major river OVER A MILE AWAY, and took the record back.......brits are nuts........
then, in the early 90's a group of brits rapped a mine shaft which was 3600+ feet...........they didn't climb the drop........
there is a mine shaft in africa that is over 10,000 feet deep, vertical shaft 10,000 feet...........only problem is its also over 100 temperature.and at the bottom its too hot for people.....they mine via robotics....so you would have to rap and climb it in a space suit i guess...
the idea of having thor oh four was to pull the rope out away from the mountain so that a slanted or "j" rappel was possible...we calculated that a 5000 foot rap might be possible..............jamie and i needed a catch to make it sound exciting and the catch was to try to see if a slanted rap could introduce a new way to seek world rappeling records.......
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L Roebuck
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Post by L Roebuck on Jul 27, 2006 14:13:54 GMT -5
 Now I just wonder if Guinness World Records will include the Mt. Thor Rappell as a new world record or not ? Guinness World Records www.guinnessworldrecords.com/ |
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Post by eyecave on Jul 28, 2006 15:57:15 GMT -5
:othey might not!!.........won't be the first time either!!  |
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Post by Taylor on Jul 29, 2006 14:28:16 GMT -5
Does anyone know if the team of cavers from TAG is the same U.S. group mentioned in this article? Fall kills Nunavut park ranger July 28, 2006 CBC News A Parks Canada patrol officer has been killed in an accident at Nunavut's Auyuittuq National Park. Police say Philip Robinson, 26, was fatally injured when he fell late Tuesday in the Thor Peak area, about 66 kilometres from Pangnirtung. Robinson, who had worked for the service since 2001, was on patrol in the Baffin Island park when the accident occurred, said Parks Canada spokesperson Pauline Scott. "We are all shocked. It's always hard to lose a co-worker," Scott said. "Phil had many friends as well and we want to extend our sincere condolence to the family and all the friends and co-workers." The RCMP say it's still not clear how the accident happened and they are continuing their investigation. A group of tourists from the United States was rappelling in the area at the time, and police are talking to them to gather more information. Scott says Robinson's death is a big loss for the national parks system. Parks Canada officials will meet with his family, and the department is bringing in counsellors to meet with Parks staff. Robinson was originally from Igloolik. www.cbc.ca/canada/north/story/2006/07/28/park-fatal-ranger.html |
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Post by eyecave on Jul 30, 2006 22:41:29 GMT -5
:-[oh no.....the park superintendent had told me he intended to send up two rangers to the top of thor to observe activities....oh crap...one of'em fell on the backside......there are places that you could bounce for awhile before you stop and also places where a 50 to 150 foot vertical fall is possible....dangerous place... he told me that one of them was a young up and coming boulderer who was their best.....damn..... i hope that is the only connection to thor......the thor guys might now be involved in a body recovery....  |
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Post by Tim White on Aug 1, 2006 15:00:01 GMT -5
Fall kills Nunavut park ranger July 28, 2006 CBC News A Parks Canada patrol officer has been killed in an accident at Nunavut's Auyuittuq National Park. Has anyone heard more information on the sad tragedy? |
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Post by Tim White on Aug 2, 2006 9:08:23 GMT -5
I received a report that the team is due home this weekend. All members are safe.
An accurate account of any connection between the two events and what occurred, not just theory of what happened should be forth coming after the team returns.
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Post by eyecave on Aug 2, 2006 21:06:55 GMT -5
it could be an interesting story as much as a falling death has any interest..........i would bet there is no connection and the thor team helped with the body recovery via the raft they certainly had.....the backside of that mountain is dangerous....
my curiosity is if the experienced boulderer was the one that fell or the other ranger was the one....also, going up the left side of that mountain is very dangerous for a non-rockclimber....it looks easier than the other ways as you approach it....
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L Roebuck
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Post by L Roebuck on Aug 3, 2006 11:19:00 GMT -5
it could be an interesting story as much as a falling death has any interest..........i would bet there is no connection and the thor team helped with the body recovery via the raft they certainly had.....the backside of that mountain is dangerous.... my curiosity is if the experienced boulderer was the one that fell or the other ranger was the one....also, going up the left side of that mountain is very dangerous for a non-rockclimber....it looks easier than the other ways as you approach it....  Having been on a previous Mt. Thor Expedition your input is enlightening to us cavers. But I am now wondering just how difficult the left side and/or the backside of Mount Thor is? |
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Post by Tim White on Aug 3, 2006 14:43:56 GMT -5
As I stated in my previous post, an accurate account of the expedition events and what occurred, should be forth coming after the team returns. I understand that they will be home this weekend. The report that I got states there is no attempt to keep events of the expedition secret. But due to only having communication a few minutes each day via satellite phone, a full report is not yet available. According to the information I received, Dan’s theory of what happened is just that...  Maybe a good one but not reality. Publicly expressed speculation without facts can only lead to rumors and errors. I’m sure the Thor guys will relay further information when they get back. BTW- I’m not a spokes-person for the team, nor am I in any way speaking for them. I just have a lot of contacts due to my rescue involvement, etc.  |
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Post by eyecave on Aug 3, 2006 15:07:57 GMT -5
tim, i am nearly 60 years old and if i wanna speculate at the level i am speculating i will..........
lynn, the back side of the mountain is not difficult in good weather, if you are a rock climber of average skill, or if you know the way up via a ledge route........if that guy tried to go up the left hand back edge he could have easily gotten in serious trouble real quick.......
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L Roebuck
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Post by L Roebuck on Aug 3, 2006 15:21:39 GMT -5
Thanks Dan. I just wanted to get a better visual picture of the difficulty a person might encounter on Mount Thor. The 1982 Mt.Thor Expedition photo's and article @ www.stationr.org/caving/thor.htm helps some but are not quite the same as hearing from a person who has been there. |
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guanonoggin
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Post by guanonoggin on Aug 3, 2006 20:01:36 GMT -5
tim, i am nearly 60 years old and if i wanna speculate at the level i am speculating i will.......... lynn, the back side of the mountain is not difficult in good weather, if you are a rock climber of average skill, or if you know the way up via a ledge route........if that guy tried to go up the left hand back edge he could have easily gotten in serious trouble real quick....... Right on Dude! Since you were there before you for sure know the layout of the place and good Karma continues to flow your way from that place of power. Man I totally agree you are free to speculate about anything you friggin want to! Chucky had no troubles knowin you were just giving your opinion instead of facts and I aint no einstein! Tell us more about Mt Thor dude! It sounds like a most awesome natural place. Chucky |
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Post by anakvr on Aug 3, 2006 20:15:13 GMT -5
Publicly expressed speculation without facts can only lead to rumors and errors. Understanding this is a forum for discussion of such things. Why you not like Mount Thor discussion |
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Post by igocaven on Aug 4, 2006 12:54:39 GMT -5
Tim White-
Please call Steve Sills @ ### ###-####
Note: moderator removed phone number for privacy reasons. I verified with Tim that he saw and recorded the number before I removed it.
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Post by eyecave on Aug 4, 2006 22:11:46 GMT -5
ya know....i am gonna tell you folks a tale....it may be true and it may not be..it is what i hope happened at thor......tim this is not your worse nightmare....., you are concerned about things i understand the reason for concern for.......in my tale the thor team is involved only in that the park had a curiosity about what they were doing and INDEPENDENT of the exped. they sent in personel that met a tragic end with nooo other input from the "tourist rappellllling in the area"....i sincerely hope that there is nooooo other connection to the activities of thor 06..as it would close the drop for sure if there were...
on the 25th at 10:54am i received an email i did not answer for 37 hours, assuming i looked at it after 10pm that nite.....it indicated difficulty in ascending the backside of thor quickly enough to observe activities that had taken place, by now or the day beforebut mostly those activities on that day...the 25th.....i sent the park supr an email with some ideas for directing the rangers up the easy route....37 hours later.....
the rangers fatal fall was on the 25th........i was at work on the 25th till 7 pm orso.......i am a chiropractor and at 10:54 i am busy and i stay busy in the am till 12:45....i then go and work out, grab a sandwich and return to work till 7 or so.....i did not answer the email until midday on the 27th.....i do not remember why i did not check my email on that night.....i was very interested in what was going on.......so, i have a personal interest in exactly when the ranger fell.....
standing in the valley looking up at thor there is a scree slope rock pile that represents rock pressed tothe middle by glaciers on the sides over the last few hundred thousand years or more that form a vertical triangular pile of sharp large flakes of rock whose peak represents the only route up the mountains right hand side............following this up if you go to the left of the peak of the rock pile you encounter a raging stream with ice and snow that will trap you eventually,......go to the right and you encounter the same thing and then, eventaully the end of a glacier, i don't remember it's name, that will also stop or kill you in your efforts to ascend it...the only route is the top of the sharp peak of the piles of rock that areheaped up.....you climb up 3 feet as you slide down 1....or 2.......sometimes you can walk with short long pounding small leaps and other times with small tiny steps as you ascend a heap of tiny pieces of fractured rock.....and hours of stepping from unstable breakdown rock to unstable breakdown rock.........the colonies of mosquitoes follow you always.....when its windy you don't have a problems except for the 10 to 30 mph wind......when its still you are being eaten alive by hundreds of mosquitoes that are easy to kill....but there are so many..in still weather resting is nearly impossible beecause of them.....occassionally i would go a bit mad and stop, shout, and slap at them furiously.........the only escape is heavy application of poisons that simply drive them to areas you neglect to soak with the poisons.......
at the top of this pathway you reach a flattened area that leads eventually to the fork beard glacier and the steep backside of thor.....a massive flattened area area a half mile wide, floored by huge pieces of rock covered with lichen .....small stretches of sand and fractured rock is all around in isolated places.....stretches of snow deep enough to stop forward progress, patches of clear ice...routes have to be picked carefully.. ...water is always nearby and usually rushing and easy to cross in only a few places.....to the right is the huge massive 2000 foot high iron rock mountain the crimson rock mjollinar...."thor's hammer"......to the left the rock becomes smoother and gradually ascends and ends as the sheer valley wall that drops to the valley floor....this wall climbs to the right and gradually ascends and then bolts up towards the overhung smooth granite monolith that is named thor.....the rangers may have gone up to the left here...can't get up that way.....
..after gaining the backside elevation you hike over flat terrain that rises slightly to the very backside of thor...walk towards the glacier you see emerging from the right side of mjolliner...
..where the fork beard glacier and the mountain come close together directly opposite where the rappel lip is..........go there and then hike straight up the steep piles of sharp slippery rock you can reach the ledge that leads to the summit....the rangers probably didn't find it.....i can climb it so it ain't that hard....finding it is not that easy..
the lead boulderer took his not as experienced friend up via a route that resulted in somebody's falling and being killed..at least that is what i hope happened.........in my rescue squad experience i couldn't help but notice that the guy who had been invited on the trip was usually the one that got in trouble....probably, maybe the same thing happened here.....
the thor team may not have had any intention of ascending the drop.....the letter they sent describing their intentions clearly said they intended to set climbing records.......but, i have been told that they did not intend to ascend......i don't know......they either never intended to climb or the death stopped their activities and they shifted over to the recovery mode......
i am assuming that word of the rangers death or fall reached them and they immediately shifted into a rescue or body recovery mode.........i am assuming they stopped ropework after that news of an unconnected accidental fall on the backside of thor.......
the park clearly tells the expeditions going into the park that rescue is not possible.....so, the thor team would have immediately been recruited......in the rangers fall was on the tuesday 25th...and the thor team gets back here on saturday 8/5....that meansat least a week of time cannot be accounted for after their successful completion of the world record "j" rappel........hiking out would take three days with full gear..........to move a body from the thor valley at the level of the river to overlord would take four days.....the first three miles in less than an hour..the river is fast but not dangerous if you watch where you are going when you put in ...the next would have taken a lot longer....the rapids are completely impassable and the trail is steep in spots and sandy in others.....the body would have to be carried for several miles..
......it would have taken three days from here to the next river putin........from here the river would carry them five or six hours to the mouth of the fijord.....
.bringing the body down from the backside of thor would have been something: the thor team could have achieved in three days or maybe five.....its possible they could have done all tthis and reached the states this weekend....if not all this i cannot see why they would not have at least done some work in the recovery.........
it is possible that with the raft and given their location the thor team could have had a very significant part in the body recovery.....they would have had to work very fast to have made a full recovery, but if they turned their raft over to park personel and then routed out....that makes more sense......
thats what i hope is a rough idea of what happend at thor....there are worse scenarios....
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Post by eyecave on Aug 4, 2006 22:54:20 GMT -5
i am assuming that the ranger fell from the left hand side......his body would have been channeled by the shape of the back side to have fallen down slick and long stretches of rock to land at the flattened pile of boulders that comprise the backside of thor on that side,....this situation would make a body recovery easier... the glacier makes up the other side,...if he fell here to the lfeft side the thor team did a great job if they were a main part of those who got the body out, and there are really no other likely sources of personel than the thor team..........if he fell anywhere else, they were supermen if they got him out and then get back this weekend.... it will be an interesting story....... . |
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guanonoggin
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Post by guanonoggin on Aug 5, 2006 18:46:47 GMT -5
it will be an interesting story....... . Dude, It freakin already is interesting and even more after that post dude! I am glad someone who has been there at Thor could tell us what it's like up there. What an awesome place Thor must be! Muchos thanks for painting the picture for us eyecave. I can almost feel the height of Thor from here man! Chucky |
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L Roebuck
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Post by L Roebuck on Aug 5, 2006 20:40:46 GMT -5
I agree with guanonoggin that your tale gives a good description of the Mount Thor terrain. Thanks for the tale Dan. |
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Now I just wonder if Guinness World Records will include the Mt. Thor Rappell as a new world record or not ? 
Having been on a previous Mt. Thor Expedition your input is enlightening to us cavers. But I am now wondering just how difficult the left side and/or the backside of Mount Thor is? 
