L Roebuck
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^V^ Just a caver
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Post by L Roebuck on Mar 26, 2009 13:36:41 GMT -5
White-Nose Syndrome in bats: Cave Advisory March 26, 2009U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service recommends suspending activities in caves to protect bats from white-nose syndromeAdvisory: White-nose syndrome (WNS) is a malady of unknown origin that has killed hundreds of thousands of bats across the northeast United States during the past three years and continues unchecked. It threatens to spread to the Midwest and Southeast, home to many federally endangered bat species as well as some of the largest bat populations in the country. The evidence collected to date indicates that human activity in caves and mines may be assisting the spread of WNS. The primary agent of concern is a fungus that is new to science and may possibly be an invasive species. This fungus grows best in the cold and wet conditions common to caves and abandoned mines and likely can be transported inadvertently from site-to-site on boots and gear of cave visitors. Therefore, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is recommending actions to reduce the risks of further spread of WNS. We hope that slowing the spread of WNS will buy time that is critical to confirming the cause and potentially implementing management actions to minimize the impacts to native bat populations. We recognize that the steps we are recommending will require sacrifice from the caving community and others, and we regret this inconvenience. However, the observed devastation to bat populations, exceeding 90 percent mortality at many affected sites, and the evidence for human-assisted spread justifies that we exercise an abundance of caution in managing activities that impact caves and bats. These measures will not be a cure for WNS, but they are necessary to help slow the spread of this affliction and to reduce the risks to bat populations in North America. While it is generally recommended that cavers avoid all caves and mines containing hibernating bats (hibernacula), even in states where WNS is not known to occur, we strongly recommend the following steps to further reduce risks of WNS: 1. A voluntary moratorium, effective immediately, on all caving activity in states known to have hibernacula affected by WNS, and all adjoining states, unless conducted as part of an agency*-sanctioned research or monitoring project. Caves infected with the WNS fungus may not show any obvious signs of its presence, and we do not know the actual geographic distribution of all affected sites. Human activity in affected caves may cause fungal spores and particles to become airborne, thereby contaminating exposed materials and allowing for transport. Although we have confidence in the current protocols for decontamination, there is no way to guarantee efficacy for all equipment in all circumstances, and they may not adequately address needs for technical or vertical gear. 2. Cavers in regions outside the WNS-affected and adjacent states should be using clothing and gear that has never been used in caves or mines in the affected or adjacent states, and should thoroughly clean and contain all clothing and gear upon exiting those locations. Because there is a lag time between the initial point of contact with the causative agent(s) of WNS and the first visible evidence of its presence, we cannot be certain that apparently unaffected sites do not pose a risk for contamination. In order to minimize the risk that WNS could travel across state, regional or national boundaries on clothing and equipment, we are advising that clothing and equipment used outside of the affected region be decontaminated following the protocols available on the Service WNS Web site (see below). This recommendation does not supersede state or local caving orders, and we request that cavers respect and observe all state and local cave closures and advisories. 3. All scientific activities that involve entry into caves or mines where bats reside should be evaluated to determine if the activity has the potential to facilitate the spread of WNS. Much of the research currently under way in bat hibernacula is related to WNS and/or monitoring, and continued research is essential to advancing our understanding of WNS. All non-WNS related research conducted in caves and mines should be coordinated with federal and state conservation agencies (as per No. 1 above). Potential benefits of research will be weighed against the risk posed to bats. Research or monitoring activities should not be conducted if risks cannot adequately be addressed. 4. For all scientific activity, no equipment or clothing that has been used in any cave or mine in a WNS-affected or adjacent state should be used in a cave or mine in an unaffected state. Within an affected state, no equipment or clothing that has been used in a WNS-affected county should be used in an unaffected or unknown county. As an added precaution, researchers should decontaminate all clothing and gear, using protocols available from the Service or a local state agency, when exiting any hibernacula. Full U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Advisory
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Post by subere on Mar 27, 2009 5:04:01 GMT -5
This effectively ends all sport caving in the Northeast. Since it's an open-ended moratorium - for the duration - there's none of the "we can wait until Spring" leavening of the past two years. USFWS and the NSS's liaison for WNS have decided to proceed as if it were established that cavers are responsible.
I am extremely disappointed in the NSS. Despite repeated requests that they oppose the demonization of cavers, they haven't done it. If membership numbers collapse in the next year, this is why.
If this quarantine is not effective, and WNS continues to spread, will cavers be exonerated? Don't count on it.
Dan Hoyt NSS 6752
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Brian Roebuck
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Post by Brian Roebuck on Mar 27, 2009 5:50:47 GMT -5
And of course the cavers in the northeast that can't go caving will go elsewhere. IF cavers are indeed a vector for spreading the disease this will just make it more likely the disease will spread south and west. Personally I think bats themselves are spreading it since there are studies and data showing they often travel long distances between roost sites and hibernaculum caves. This may indeed harm caving in the US for a long time to come. The NSS should eventually issue a statement on this subject that endeavors to show cavers as willing to help protect cave species by cooperating with scientists in trying to stop the spread of WNS. They should point out that there are NO facts showing cavers are the cause and that cavers as well as scientists had no way of knowing how fast or devastating this disease would be.
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Post by subere on Mar 27, 2009 7:37:28 GMT -5
"And of course the cavers in the northeast that can't go caving will go elsewhere."
In my case, elsewhere means a plane ride. Most people in my Grotto don't have the money to do that more than once a year. We've already gotten vibes from people in other areas that we're not really welcome.
The NSS should indeed issue that statement. They should have issued it last year, because it was true then as it is now. That they did not, even when numerous people were pointing out to them how cavers were being blamed with no evidence, is a disgrace. It's going to bite the Society in the ass, and that bite is richly deserved.
Dan Hoyt NSS 6752
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Post by Innermostphoto on Mar 27, 2009 12:51:23 GMT -5
The NSS has not behaved well in my opinion for quite some time now and this latest decision just adds to the list. There is no evidence people are transmitting this disease despite the "lean" the USFW statement takes. If this is to be the end of the species then there is nothing you, me, the NSS, USFW, or anyone else can do about it. It is just the way of things. That may sound a bit drastic but extinction is a part of nature. A ban on caving? Please.
bob
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L Roebuck
Technical Support
Caving
^V^ Just a caver
Posts: 2,023
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Post by L Roebuck on Mar 27, 2009 13:25:31 GMT -5
I have followed all the media articles concerning white nose syndrome from day one but the 'trial by media' has been going on for a long time so now what I would really like to see is the scientific stats and data beginning in 2006 with the first fungus encounter through the present time. Since it seems that the term ‘cavers’ is being used very loosely I would really like to see the “actual scientific data” showing WNS cave and/or WNS mine visitation as it pertains to the distribution of WNS researchers, organized cavers, miners, and/or casual spelunkers. Also I would like to see the scientific data for the tags used to track the infected bats as they visit cave to cave, mine to mine or even cave to mine. I agree with Bob --- nature has its own balance, extinction is a part of the balance --- and I must say I am proud that I don’t have to dodge dinosaurs to go caving!
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Brian Roebuck
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Caver
Caving - the one activity that really brings you to your knees!
Posts: 2,732
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Post by Brian Roebuck on Mar 27, 2009 13:27:51 GMT -5
The USFWS pages imply cavers are most likely responsible for the "disjoint jump" of WNS to Virginia and West Virginia. If you look at their map of affected WNS counties www.fws.gov/northeast/white_nose.html you will notice the caves with WNS in those 2 states are along the Appalachian Mountain chain and are in a direct line with the the source infection site in NY. In my experience a straight line is not a disjoint pattern. I would suggest the infection radiated outward from the source instead. This doesn't prove anything but it sure makes sense that Appalachian migratory patterns of infected bats may be much more responsible for that particular "disjoint spread of WNS" than cavers. Caves of higher altitude regions along these mountains are also typically colder thus more effectively harboring the cold loving fungi in question. If the fungus is cold loving I wonder why it hasn't spread to Canada? I feel the science is still poorly understood and in a panic reaction the scientists are fueling media hype by suggesting we all stop caving. Where are the actual data? I would like to see the source data of the "cavers might be to blame" implications out in print before I could commit to quit caving.
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Post by subere on Mar 27, 2009 16:57:16 GMT -5
I believe that the first cave where WNS was found was Hailes Cave in John Boyd Thacher State Park. This cave has been closed for many years, and only bat scientists are allowed in. There ought to be a record somewhere of who went in and when.
I tried a year ago to get the NSS to push back against the "cavers are spreading it" noise, but they would not do it.
I have seen absolutely no scientific effort to either prove or disprove the idea that cavers are in any way responsible. Given the enormous support sport cavers have given the Society over the last 60 years, wouldn't it be appropriate for the NSS to step up and either push for that scientific effort or do the research itself?
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L Roebuck
Technical Support
Caving
^V^ Just a caver
Posts: 2,023
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Post by L Roebuck on Mar 28, 2009 6:54:27 GMT -5
Another white nose article.... Feds warn cavers to keep out Citing a crisis in the number of bats dying from white-nose syndrome, the federal government is asking people to put caving on hold until it can get a hold on the fungus problem. The advisory is drawing mixed reaction locally. The fungus isn’t harmful to humans. However, many believe humans may play a part in spreading the disease by carrying contamination as they explore cave to cave. Read the Feds
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Post by Jennifer on Mar 28, 2009 10:55:54 GMT -5
I do a lot of work with FWS biologists down in Alabama and they're NOT saying "cavers are causing this." They are saying the primary means of transmission is almost certainly bat to bat. However, nobody knows exactly what is causing it or exactly how it spreads. That's why biologists I'm talking to are so worried. Based on trends of how WNS is spreading, there is concern that humans *may be* contributing to its spread; in other words, speeding up the natural bat-to-bat transmission of the disease. Biologists just want to do everything they possibly can to slow the spread of this to try to give researchers more time to figure out what's causing this disease and perhaps try to find a way to stop it. I don't know if that's realistic or not. However, despite spotty scientific evidence of how WNS spreads and no proof that humans are contributing, I'm going to completely stop caving in the states listed in the advisory and will probably just shift to other activities for a while. I don't know if it will help at all because I get the impression that the majority of cavers will probably think this is nonsense and will place a higher priority on engaging in their sport instead of making a personal sacrifice to possibly help the bats.
I'm sort of surprised that cavers who usually seem conservation minded don't understand why we should want to do everything we can to prevent the faster spread of WNS and seem to want solid proof before altering their behavior. You aren't gonna get proof anytime soon. Research is a very slow thing, especially with budgets that have gotten axed in the last few years (why do you think the NSS and BCI set up funds for this? Because the FWS needs money. And research like this costs lots and lots of money.). And yes, "extinction is natural." But guess what? Bat populations have severely declined in the last 200 years due pretty much entirely to humans screwing up their habitats and overall ecosystems. Because bat populations have already seriously declined, and habitats have severely declined, bats are much, much more susceptible to diseases such as WNS. I suspect diseases like this have happened in the past, but there were many more bats and bat habitats so the species could adequately recover. If 95% of our bats die in the next few years, recovery does not look promising, especially considering all of the other environmental challenges currently facing us. It will be a very long time before another species is able to come in and fill the niche that bats will leave behind.
I don't know if anything I personally do will help slow the spread of WNS, but I want to try.
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Brian Roebuck
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Caving - the one activity that really brings you to your knees!
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Post by Brian Roebuck on Mar 29, 2009 10:08:49 GMT -5
This is the part of the USFWS public statement ( www.fws.gov/northeast/wnscaveadvisory.html ) that I have issues with: "The discontinuous nature of the rapid spread of WNS, especially to the most recently discovered sites in West Virginia and Virginia, suggests that something other than bat-to-bat transmission is contributing to the spread of WNS. The potential for the human-assisted spread of WNS is further supported by the fact that many of the recently affected sites are also popular destinations for recreational cavers, while many bat hibernacula in less-popular or inaccessible caves between the newly affected caves and those affected in 2008 remain unaffected. Records of caver movements also reveal a connection between sites in these affected regions, additionally suggestive of a link to human activity." I think that this is the basis for asking cavers to curtail caving in the 17 state region. This includes my state - Tennessee. Being conservation minded I applaud all the WNS research that is being done. Being an engineer I understand the complex nature of scientific research and it's time consuming aspects. As cavers Lynn and I have made many sacrifices to cave softly, protect cave life (including bats), and give back to the caving community. We do not have any reason to feel ashamed for our opinions or to retract our request (not demand) for more substantive data. Neither one of us have stated that we will continue to go caving without regard to the request of the NSS or the USFWS but that is our decision to make and we would simply like to have enough information to make it. It appears that those data are not yet available unfortunately. I worry that Northeast cavers will travel south to our region in droves to go caving outside the moratorium area (it is only natural that they would want to) and that if we cavers are able to transfer WNS through whatever means ( could the spores be transported in cavers' lungs? etc ) the spread of WNS will move south. Alabama is not yet on the USFWS list. If say New York cavers visit Alabama caves and spread WNS the problem will become much more serious quickly. Thus the moratorium on caving in those 17 states will pretty much have been for nothing. So what if I continue to cave in Tennessee without going to say Virginia or any other state to go caving? The only way I could spread WNS in my state (assuming humans can) is if WNS makes it to a Tennessee cave first by some other method. Is this perhaps the main reason for the caving moratorium? It certainly has merit. I haven't made up my mind about all this. Some cavers have. Some will continue caving and some won't. Casual spelunkers will go regardless. I want to protect the bats but I am a caver. These are indeed troubling times...
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Post by subere on Mar 29, 2009 10:09:39 GMT -5
I don't know if anything I personally do will help slow the spread of WNS, but I want to try. You're going to stop caving, then?
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Post by Jennifer on Mar 30, 2009 11:07:41 GMT -5
"You're going to stop caving, then?"
Yes. And I've been caving for 28 years since I was 12 years old. It won't kill me to stop caving for a while until more is known about this.
I'm hoping that conservation organizations will be able to work with FWS in the coming months to come up with some recommendations that aren't so confusing and come up with better ways to communicate with cavers.
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Post by Innermostphoto on Mar 30, 2009 11:22:21 GMT -5
Well Jennifer the biologists in Ala may not be saying cavers are causing this but other biologists are! It's like saying despite any preponderance of evidence, we the jury find you guilty. USFW does acknowledge in their first sentence they have no conclusive proof but they go on to "push" you into believing that you are a major contributor. I doubt it. Actually, this may be a good thing. Once all the bats die we can now remove those unsightly cave gates that were unjustifiably placed. Meanwhile, Roy Powers and Kristen Bobo become one of the nations unemployed. bob biddix Innermost Imagery www.innermostimagery.com>>>>>>>While we do not have conclusive proof, the leapfrogging pattern of WNS spread suggests that humans may be contributing to the spread. In some areas, caves known to be popular destinations for cavers have bats with WNS, while bats in nearby caves not frequented by cavers do not show WNS symptoms. Records of caver movements also show a connection among sites in WNS-affected areas<<<<<<<<
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Post by Jennifer on Mar 30, 2009 16:56:50 GMT -5
Bob, if that's what the majority of cavers really think, we might as well just go squash all of the bats in every cave right now and hasten the transition to a country without bats. I don't even know how to respond to such a short sighted way of looking at things.
Nobody's saying we're "major contributors." Saying cavers "may be" contributing to the spread isn't saying IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT! Get a grip.
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Brian Roebuck
Site Admin
Caver
Caving - the one activity that really brings you to your knees!
Posts: 2,732
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Post by Brian Roebuck on Mar 31, 2009 5:31:53 GMT -5
"we might as well just go squash all of the bats in every cave right now"
Actually that is (was) sort of one of the biologists options. Close off the WNS caves and let the population die off to avoid the spread of the disease. Cruel and unthinkable but it might have worked. I read about that in some of the published materials where all the biologists were brainstorming etc to come up with answers.
Tough choices for us all.
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Post by Trey on Mar 31, 2009 16:51:44 GMT -5
Roy Powers and Kristen Bobo out of a job. Music to my ears. I will glad to be on the gate removal team. The longer WNS goes on the longer the biologists can get their funding, in other words, justify their jobs I don't believe they are in a hurry at all.
Trey
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Post by Azurerana on Mar 31, 2009 20:54:06 GMT -5
I want to know who keeps "records of caver movements." Other than cave registers (and I've only signed one in 22 years of caving) who and how are they recording our movements?
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Post by subere on Apr 1, 2009 12:30:45 GMT -5
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Post by Innermostphoto on Apr 1, 2009 15:53:12 GMT -5
Short sightedness? I think it is a very narrow minded point of view to keep pointing fingers at cavers when logically cavers have have nothing to do with this! Currently biologists, USFW, TNC, or ACCA strong arm you into believing ALL they say is true or they put a scare into the public citing this could be the end of the species. So what if it is? I am a firm believer in evolution and if they become extinct so be it but I don't believe they will. Species have a way of surviving on their own without our assistance. I grow tired every time a disaster occurs it gets blamed on the "human presence". Like it is not possible for a natural occurring influence to be at work? Now that the USFW statement has been issued all govt run properties will close their caves without a doubt. The next step is publicity. The more publicity the better to convince private land owners to close their caves as well despite NO evidence cavers are vectors. It's about control that's all. Cave on. bob biddix Innermost Imagery www.innermostimagery.com
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Post by Trey on Apr 2, 2009 6:09:24 GMT -5
Cave on indeed.
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L Roebuck
Technical Support
Caving
^V^ Just a caver
Posts: 2,023
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Post by L Roebuck on Apr 2, 2009 11:19:06 GMT -5
Hey Jennifer I tend to lean toward being a cave conservationist --a bat conservationist is totally different. As of 3-9-2009 (Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries) white nose syndrome has NOT been confirmed in Virginia so Tennessee is NOT one of the adjoining states mentioned. IMHO the media needs to report the facts not hype. www.dgif.virginia.gov/news/release.asp?id=210 R you sure cavers aren't getting blamed? Spelunkers blamed for bat-tastrophe" Holy guano! The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is implicating recreational cavers -- and even field biologists -- in the spread of a deadly disease that is threatening North American bat populations." Feds warn cavers to keep out
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