Rock
Beginner
Rock
Posts: 57
|
Post by Rock on Feb 28, 2006 10:07:45 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by madratdan on Feb 28, 2006 10:45:23 GMT -5
Thanks for posting this Rock. Caves.com seems to be from the UK. . Cave Softly, Dan
|
|
|
Post by Azurerana on Feb 28, 2006 10:50:39 GMT -5
I think caves.com is the work of Mark Passerby, who is American. Go to www.caves.com.
|
|
L Roebuck
Technical Support
Caving
^V^ Just a caver
Posts: 2,023
|
Post by L Roebuck on Feb 28, 2006 11:14:10 GMT -5
Humm......do you think Caves.com Forum, Nashville Grotto Forum or Colorado Caves Forum will ever be included in any future "caver discussion board comparisons" by Wayne Harrison in the NSS Discussion Board Subcommittee Reports? Afterall, to be a laudable report it would have to contain comparsions of all the caver forums to http:// caves.org/phpBB2, not just this one. caves.org/nss-business/reports/mar06/ovp.html#NSS%20Discussion%20Board%20Subcommittee
|
|
|
Post by Karstscience on Feb 28, 2006 18:43:18 GMT -5
One has to wonder what Wayne Harrison was thinking with this report. I wouldn't put too much stock into this Lynn, as it reflects more on Wayne and his mindset than that of others. Is there a certain quota of posts to the NSS Discussion Board that one is required to make in order to avoid being fodder for Wayne's report?
The ultimate responsibility lies with Tom Rea, who "edited the report to his liking". With Tom's experience and long-time involvement with the Society, it irks me that he allowed one NSS volunteer to use the OVP Report in an attempt to defame the character of other NSS volunteers. At this point, with the NSS struggling to retain NSS members and aggressively seeking volunteers for unfilled volunteer positions, it galls me to see the leaders of the Society condone such actions.
On a personal note, I appreciate the greater emphasis that has been placed on the speleological related sciences and cave conservation on this forum.
|
|
Brian Roebuck
Site Admin
Caver
Caving - the one activity that really brings you to your knees!
Posts: 2,732
|
Post by Brian Roebuck on Feb 28, 2006 22:20:09 GMT -5
Too bad the nature of a large portion of the "940 posts made by the moderators" were not described in the NSS report as well. If anyone cares to look most of these posts are informational in content and serve to keep the readers informed about happenings in caving. As such there are not many forum members that feel compelled to reply to what essentially is "caving news". Discussions do occur often enough and the US Cavers Forum appears healthy to me. Interestingly all of the various forums I belong to (from computer forums to vehicle forums to caver forums) have the majority of posts coming from their respective moderators. This makes sense since moderators are usually the ones that care most about the forums. Considering this I can't quite see the point in reporting to the NSS what is essentially obvious. I also don't understand why an NSS report would contain details about a forum with NO ties to the NSS. What gives? Regardless I hope that all of the various caving forums continue to stay active and provide information and a place to discuss things for all of us.
|
|
L Roebuck
Technical Support
Caving
^V^ Just a caver
Posts: 2,023
|
Post by L Roebuck on Mar 1, 2006 10:05:36 GMT -5
Well hey........maybe no one took the time to explained that when submitting a Report to the National Speleological Society about the NSS Discussion Forum (cave chat) -- the contents of that report should pertain to that Discussion Board ? Yea, yea, I know.......Earth Shattering News! BTW: Thanks to everyone who has emailed and PM'ed. You Rock!
|
|
|
Post by madratdan on Mar 1, 2006 11:29:52 GMT -5
\ Your right. It looks like it just started over, since there is a lack of posts. I wonder what happened? Wow, that's a laughable statement. This DB has been up for at least a year longer than the NSS DB. Why the heck is he including a comparision to this board after the BOG told us to change our name and disclaim that this discussion board has anything to do with the NSS? Remember Wayne is in the media business, so skewing the facts to butter his own butt doesn't surprise me one bit. IMO, It's a fact of life with those news reporter types. Maybe if this DB had a link to off the main NSS web page, he could use us as a comparison. Wow, now that's a laughable statement, isn't it? ;D That would be comparing apples to apples, but thats not the effect he was obviously after. I remember several posts to us moderators on the last discussion board, where he encouraged us moderators to do just that. If you start to compare subject matter between the two DB's and the amount of views and posts, a large portion of what is posted and viewed on the NSS board is non cave related. Throw out the open talk section and what do you get? I'm not sure why Wayne is singling you two ladies out like this? Strange........very strange.........It's makes one wonder what is really going on behind the scenes. The good news is, when the NSS discussion board crashes again, this board will still be up and running with actual caving news and information that Lynn and Sharon have been kind enough to find and post for us to enjoy. Keep up the good work you two. This DB is going nowhere soon, yet it is everywhere and here to stay. You could also look at it this way. We must be doing something right if we have Wayne so worried he is stalking and comparing the US cavers forum to the NSS forum. I know it seems petty on his part, but he is a news paper reporter type, so............. How's it hanging Wayne! Nice of you to drop by again. ;D
|
|
|
Post by Tim White on Mar 1, 2006 13:09:08 GMT -5
Don't know when Wayne submitted his report of 6,700 post, but as of today Non-Caving Stuff had the following number of post - Open Talk 1426, Political/Religion Discussion 1138 and Jokes 306 for a total of 2870. That’s darn close of half of the 6,700 post made up of Non-Caving Stuff (a.k.a. crap, IMHO)
|
|
L Roebuck
Technical Support
Caving
^V^ Just a caver
Posts: 2,023
|
Post by L Roebuck on Mar 1, 2006 14:27:07 GMT -5
Don't know when Wayne submitted his report of 6,700 post, but as of today Non-Caving Stuff had the following number of post - Open Talk 1426, Political/Religion Discussion 1138 and Jokes 306 for a total of 2870. That’s darn close of half of the 6,700 post made up of Non-Caving Stuff (a.k.a. crap, IMHO) Thanks for that info. Dare I even ask? Could it be the NSS Discussion board is catering more to non-cavers these days - instead of the members of the NSS?
|
|
|
Post by Azurerana on Mar 1, 2006 15:23:45 GMT -5
I'm posting both here and there...I agree, the criticism of this DB is uncalled for, and irrelevant to the NSS DB report. I also sense that a number of people, myself included, are self-censoring what they post on the NSS DB. I've really been disappointed by the fact that most BOG members (notable exception, Cheryl Jones) are now silent on the NSS DB. Instead of being a viable communication tool between the members of the society and its heirarchy, it's gone back to a 'business as usual' situation, one way communication tool, unlike its previous incarnation. where Scott Fee, as NSS Prez and board member had no difficulty being engaged with the general rabble which we are. Kudos too, to Dave Bunnell, for taking on and defending his editorial choices when confronted.
The above is no personal slam on Wayne--he seems a reasonable sort of fellow--its just that occasionally one can see the ''machinery behind the screen generating Rah-Rah", not actual talk. Sometimes I wish I were rich enough to be able to travel and could actually run for the BOG. But maybe it is just as well that I am not-- if people as savvy as Philip Moss cannot dig under entrenched attitudes, it may just be purt nigh impossible.
|
|
Brian Roebuck
Site Admin
Caver
Caving - the one activity that really brings you to your knees!
Posts: 2,732
|
Post by Brian Roebuck on Mar 1, 2006 21:27:05 GMT -5
Well I still feel like the NSS forum is over-controlled compared to this one. I have not renewed membership on it. I support the NSS and am a life member but I choose not to participate in their forum at this time. It is just too tightly held for my tastes. I read some stuff on there from time to time though. Most of what I need to know can be found here on US Cavers however and it is definitely a friendly forum with room to discuss things. It would be cool if some of the BOG would create anonymous handles and join this forum (if they haven't done so yet that is). At least they could speak freely to real cavers that usually have no political agendas etc. It appears they have been asked to not speak out on the NSS forum but that is just speculation on my part. Too bad really. I was beginning to get to actually know some of the BOG back when they posted on the NSS forum before it crashed for the third or forth time. It sure did make it easier to see who I wanted to vote for next time! That was great for all of us and they could read about what some of us members actually thought as well helping them figure out what they would do once elected to represent the cavers. Oh well sombody up there just knows better..... "What we have here is a failure to communicate"
|
|
|
Post by Sharon Faulkner on Mar 1, 2006 22:38:53 GMT -5
Well, I guess I'll address this issue briefly. For the record, I have made a half-a-dozen posts to the NSS DB, they may have been removed by the mods or something, but I remember making them. That would average out to about one post per month. I'm not exactly sure what more is expected of me. Wayne has an issue with U.S. Cavers Forum and that's his devil to deal with. U.S. Cavers Forum has been around since early 2004. It is not in competition with any other caving forums. Folks are welcome to read and/or participate in this forum as much or as little as they choose. (Thanks to all for the positive comments regarding this forum.)
|
|
|
Post by Taylor on Mar 2, 2006 1:02:12 GMT -5
Forrest Wilson, Rick Blackburn and Meredith Johnson are also former moderators. By looking at the members list on cavechat.org I see Meredith and Forrest have only made one post each and Rick hasn't made any. Sharon has made six. The NSS Discussion Board Subcommittee Report gives the appearance of being less than correct. It makes me wonder if other information in the OVP Report is following the same guidelines for accuracy of information? Exactly.
|
|
L Roebuck
Technical Support
Caving
^V^ Just a caver
Posts: 2,023
|
Post by L Roebuck on Mar 2, 2006 10:15:35 GMT -5
Additionally, Mike Hood, P. Bingham and Dan Sullivan are also former moderators.
Whoa, let me correct the above statement. To date 1,081 posts have been made by Sharon and I on US Cavers Forum. ;D At least the part about being former NSS Forum moderators seems correct, as it was definitely my choice to not apply for a moderator position on cavechat.org.
|
|
|
Post by madratdan on Mar 2, 2006 11:33:34 GMT -5
He must be going off of number of views per subject, but if you combine the two open talk forums, religious/political and open talk, (as of today) you get On Rope= 44604 Equiptment = 44809 Open Talk and Political/Religion Discussion = 61055 Open talk was number one until he split it. Boy that wouldn't look to good in a report, now would it? Looks like Wayne found a way to skew those figures also. Non caving discussions were actually the number one catagory before the topic split. If you compare the forums by number of posts and number of topics, open talk is still number one, but is close to General caving discussions, not Equiptment and On Rope. If you recombine Open Talk and Political/religion, then it is way ahead in all catagories.
|
|
Rock
Beginner
Rock
Posts: 57
|
Post by Rock on Mar 2, 2006 12:30:04 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by madratdan on Mar 2, 2006 13:08:10 GMT -5
Wow, it did change. Interesting............................Very Interesting I'm glad to see he had the decency to remove both Sharon's and Lynn's name from his report. That's one of his brighter moves to date. I feel the same way. I quit posting jokes because I don't want to be hassled with censorship. It was fun to converse with Rescueman, but creating and hiding that forum, till you are logged in, has kind of killed those discussions. In fact, every time I try to stay logged in when I visit, my load time doubles. Then if I surf off to check out a link, it randomly logs me off. For some reason, the new software has never liked me. At first I thought they were picking on me, but others have complained of the same types of things. I think I'll go back to lurking before I become part of one of Wayne's next report to the BOG. I looked at my post count since I joined and it's getting rather high. Since it seems to be all about the numbers, I don't want to become one of the top posters again.
|
|
Kelly
Beginner
Posts: 129
|
Post by Kelly on Mar 2, 2006 14:57:32 GMT -5
Wow! Lynn has and continues to be a big supporter/organizer of the cave clean-up efforts and cave conservation here in TAG. She has worked through her NSS grotto and throught the Southeastern Regional Association (SERA) of the NSS to do some amazing stuff. Sharon too has done much volunteer work for the NSS with the convention last year, and continues to be a leader and offered to run for an officer position for the NSS (one has to be really dedicated to opt for that kind of punishment! ). From the changes that were made to the report, obviously someone out there had the good sense to recognize the criticizim of Lynn and Sharon as wrong, and took it out! Because someone did correct the issue, let's not assume the worst of the NSS as a whole. In a group as big as the NSS there are always a few bad apples, but the NSS is big enough to overshadow those, and do some awesome things. Lynn and Sharon, keep doing what you are doing here. No matter what the news I always seem to read it here first! -Kelly
|
|
L Roebuck
Technical Support
Caving
^V^ Just a caver
Posts: 2,023
|
Post by L Roebuck on Mar 2, 2006 21:05:45 GMT -5
Wow! Lynn has and continues to be a big supporter/organizer of the cave clean-up efforts and cave conservation here in TAG. She has worked through her NSS grotto and throught the Southeastern Regional Association (SERA) of the NSS to do some amazing stuff. Sharon too has done much volunteer work for the NSS with the convention last year, and continues to be a leader and offered to run for an officer position for the NSS (one has to be really dedicated to opt for that kind of punishment! ). From the changes that were made to the report, obviously someone out there had the good sense to recognize the criticizim of Lynn and Sharon as wrong, and took it out! Because someone did correct the issue, let's not assume the worst of the NSS as a whole. In a group as big as the NSS there are always a few bad apples, but the NSS is big enough to overshadow those, and do some awesome things. Lynn and Sharon, keep doing what you are doing here. No matter what the news I always seem to read it here first! -Kelly Wow, Thank You Kelly for the kind words! I don't know about the other moderators but I've received so many supportive emails and appreciate them all! Thanks everyone! It's members like you that restore my belief in cavers! Hats off to all of you!
|
|
|
Post by Sharon Faulkner on Mar 2, 2006 22:26:37 GMT -5
Thank you Kelly for the positive comments, and everyone else. Like Lynn, I've received a surprising number of emails. To be honest I didn't know that this many people were reading the forum or would care enough to get involved. I'm humbled.
|
|
|
Post by Wayne Harrison on Mar 3, 2006 21:07:08 GMT -5
I am pleased to see the interest of the members of this forum in the activities of the NSS, and appreciate you posting notices of reports and agenda when they are made available. Keeping the membership informed and involved in our Society is important. Towards this end, I thought the readers of this forum would appreciate a statement from me on this discussion of the OVP report.
Committee chairmen are responsible for reporting to officers on activities three times a year. My report was submitted to my boss, OVP Tom Rea, not the BOG. Tom decides what he reports to the NSS Board, and I (and Tom) regret that a private report was inadvertently made public. I referred to the US Caver's discussion board in my report as a benchmark for the NSS forum, since the US Cavers forum advertised as an alternative to the NSS Forum when we were off line those few weeks. The NSS of course is interested in the performance of its discussion board. In addition, I felt it was important to report that many of our former moderators had expressed an interest in participating in forum management once again, and that the forum had grown to the point where we needed their help. I explained the absence of notable ex-moderator Sharon by pointing out that she was busy with this forum, in fairness to her. It is my responsibility to let Tom know the NSS forum has recovered since the NSS server crash and is growing. I absolutely do agree that there's room for other forums out there, and I enjoy browsing them.
Everyone is welcome to post on the NSS forum. (Like the US Cavers Forum, the NSS Forum does not screen forum members to allow only cavers or NSS members.) I'm pleased that US Forum members, including Dan, Lynn, Sharon, and Tim, are participating in both discussion boards, for you add value to the NSS Forum. As Sharon said, she has posted six messages -- the last in November, 2005. In contrast to what was insinuated however, not a single one of her posts have been removed, for they did not violate the Terms of Service. I hope she will continue to contribute.
I believe we can all agree that we each have the best interests of the NSS at heart, and I hope we'll try keep this in mind, above all, as we decide where to place our efforts, both on line and in person.
As a side note, thanks for helping me with my registration problems.
|
|