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Post by blazerbud on Apr 3, 2008 19:20:20 GMT -5
I have some Newbie Questions.
1. Do people check the air quality in caves? What instrumentation do they use?
2. Are there certain types of fungus, bacteria, or protozoa that are harmful to Humans that a person might get exposed to in a cave?
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Brian Roebuck
Site Admin
Caver
Caving - the one activity that really brings you to your knees!
Posts: 2,732
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Post by Brian Roebuck on Apr 4, 2008 5:20:10 GMT -5
There have been some pits that contain a lot of vegetation debris that caused higher than normal CO2 concentrations. This lowers the amount of oxygen available and we call that "bad air". You would have to have a portable O2 meter to really detect it other than the bic lighter test. Flame on a lighter will have a large gap in it in bad air. Of course mines and other man made holes in the ground could contain all sorts of dangerous fumes and gases. Caves are usually safer.
I wouldn't drink cave water unfiltered if that is what you mean. Other than that not in North America that I know of.
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Post by Azurerana on Apr 4, 2008 8:53:09 GMT -5
Dr. B, you neglected to mention histoplasmosis (a fungus common in dry bat caves that can get in your lungs), any sort of fecal or farm animal related nasties (raccoon scat can be particularily nasty), and some rashes you just have to walk through the water, esp. in ranching areas with open wounds or non-broke skin and not wash well afterward.
In general, any thing you can get outside is likely present in a cave. In addition, there are a number of tiny critters which are killed by UV sunlight, but which thrive in caves.
Do many or most caves get sick from caves? No. Should it keep you from caving if you aren't immune-compromised? No. Should you take a bath afterwards? Definitely yes, and avoid dry caves with lots of bats unless you've already been exposed to histo.
On the other hand, a lot of research is being done on cave microbiology to find things beneficial to human health.
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Post by blazerbud on Apr 4, 2008 11:09:50 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies.
I am perfectly healthy and want to keep it that way.
I'm just a wus, or cautious. I invisioned caves as confined spaces, and I wouldn't enter any confined space without checking the air for the correct % oxygen or common toxins.
I have a portable oxygen meter used for confined space entries and I wondered if people used these or just laid it on the line, I imagine it's possible to breath all the good air out of a cavern.
I was mostly worried about poisonous gases like CO, CO2, radio-isotopes, these should all have a high natural abundance underground and possibly deep within a cave where no person goes, a pocket could exist of toxic gas that may flood the habitable region when you least expect it, such as a change in barometric pressure.
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Post by Rebel Rouser on Apr 4, 2008 13:38:51 GMT -5
Let's not kid ourselves. Cavers have a death wish! "I was mostly worried about poisonous gases like CO, CO2, radio-isotopes, these should all have a high natural abundance underground and possibly deep within a cave where no person goes, a pocket could exist of toxic gas that may flood the habitable region when you least expect it, such as a change in barometric pressure." I have never heard of this occurring. There are a few caves that have reputed elevated levels of CO2. The scenario you put forward is not something the cavers I know worry about. Knowing the formation the cave is located in would help as far as delineating hazards within (ridge and valley, sinkhole plain,etc.). Rebel
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Post by Azurerana on Apr 6, 2008 15:15:39 GMT -5
Radon levels in some caves (even in non-uranium mining areas) are quite high, but caver exposure per year are usually quite low, unless you do a 40 hour week underground, 50 weeks a year. Cavers in uranium areas do worry about radioactivity levels (and cavers places where the groundwater is high in arsenic) . Hence, knowing the local geology is good. There can be hydrocarbons in the water, TCE, gasoline, etc., But you usually can smell or see something is wrong with the stream water.
Cavers in high-ag areas do worry about fertilizer and ag-chemical runoff-- things like atrazine-- and often don't cave after local applications.
Urban cavers and in areas where sinkholes are still used as trash dumps do encounter CO, CO2, methane (which doesn't have an odor naturally). People usually don't have O2 meters, but the group does self-monitor, and if everyone develops a headache, starts hyperventilating, etc. simultaneously, something is usually up, and the group exits. A person feels sick from bad air before they just pass out. We've got a fair amount of bad air here, and I've heard of people getting sick, but no one passing out so quickly they've had to be hospitalized or died.
All these things are stuff the people who already cave in the area usually know about and know what to watch for. Hence the admonition to start caving with people who've been at it in the area, at least for the first year. The life or hospital bill you save may be your own.
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Post by blazerbud on Apr 8, 2008 12:04:24 GMT -5
Azurerana,
I agree. I have no caving experience, but I have some level of scientific knowledge, "Don't ask my Co-Workers. ;D"
I figured that most of the things that I could dream up as possible hazards were probably true and I think that this is likely the case. But, not tot he extent that a person couldn't participate in this activity with a good level of safety.
I am planning to join a local Grotto, and learn about stuff and maybe go with them when the time comes.
I guess if other people have routinely safely gone into a well explored cavern that pretty much settles it.
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