Rock
Beginner
Rock
Posts: 57
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Post by Rock on Mar 5, 2006 13:23:06 GMT -5
I am pleased to see the interest of the members of this forum in the activities of the NSS, and appreciate you posting notices of reports and agenda when they are made available. Keeping the membership informed and involved in our Society is important. Towards this end, I thought the readers of this forum would appreciate a statement from me on this discussion of the OVP report.
Committee chairmen are responsible for reporting to officers on activities three times a year. My report was submitted to my boss, OVP Tom Rea, not the BOG. Tom decides what he reports to the NSS Board, and I (and Tom) regret that a private report was inadvertently made public. I referred to the US Caver's discussion board in my report as a benchmark for the NSS forum, since the US Cavers forum advertised as an alternative to the NSS Forum when we were off line those few weeks. The NSS of course is interested in the performance of its discussion board. In addition, I felt it was important to report that many of our former moderators had expressed an interest in participating in forum management once again, and that the forum had grown to the point where we needed their help. I explained the absence of notable ex-moderator Sharon by pointing out that she was busy with this forum, in fairness to her. It is my responsibility to let Tom know the NSS forum has recovered since the NSS server crash and is growing. I absolutely do agree that there's room for other forums out there, and I enjoy browsing them.
Everyone is welcome to post on the NSS forum. (Like the US Cavers Forum, the NSS Forum does not screen forum members to allow only cavers or NSS members.) I'm pleased that US Forum members, including Dan, Lynn, Sharon, and Tim, are participating in both discussion boards, for you add value to the NSS Forum. As Sharon said, she has posted six messages -- the last in November, 2005. In contrast to what was insinuated however, not a single one of her posts have been removed, for they did not violate the Terms of Service. I hope she will continue to contribute.
I believe we can all agree that we each have the best interests of the NSS at heart, and I hope we'll try keep this in mind, above all, as we decide where to place our efforts, both on line and in person.
As a side note, thanks for helping me with my registration problems. [/size] Hey if a private report is online doesn't that make it a 'public' report and not a private report . 
If a post seems like it is an apology but does not actually say the words does that make it an apology?
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Brian Roebuck
Site Admin
Caver
Caving - the one activity that really brings you to your knees!
Posts: 2,732
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Post by Brian Roebuck on Mar 5, 2006 18:06:11 GMT -5
Rock,
I believe the answer to your first question is "Public" and the answer to the second question is a resounding "NO".
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Kelly
Beginner
Posts: 129
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Post by Kelly on Mar 6, 2006 20:38:33 GMT -5
Thank you for your informative response to your report Wayne. While its a little alarming that you and Tom are exchanging private emails comparing the NSS DB to the US Cavers Forum, I understand how personal emails can sometimes get spread and mis-understood in directions you would not ordinarily intend. I was curious about how the report gets generated. My reports, of the same sort (although under the President), I write completely prior to sending to Bill. Bill never changes anything to my report, and I'm sure he would let me know if he wanted to change anything. Over the years, neither Bill nor Scott ever changed anything, though. Just curious, but do you guys under the OVP write reports, or does the OVP write the report based on your input?
BTW, for the creators of this board, I just used the spell check! Yippeee! I'm a terrible speller, so its great to see that feature here!
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Post by madratdan on Mar 7, 2006 1:09:04 GMT -5
That's pretty funny Wayne.  Real fair all right. If you want to compare forums you should at least link this one to the main NSS web page. The thing you don't get is we are not here to compete with your forum. We are just here to talk about caves, and caving. |
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Post by Wayne Harrison on Mar 8, 2006 10:33:52 GMT -5
Kelly, Tom is responsible for the content of his OVP report. How the officers collect information for their reports is up to them. There is no "official" format for the officers to use to prepare their reports to the Board. (You can see this by looking at the batch of reports from the officers for the upcoming Board meeting that are now on the NSS Web site.)
The NSS forum is a tool to serve the NSS fellowship clause of our purpose, and to further education about caves and caving, and we hope in some way it helps attract and retain members. The more active and interesting it is, and the more people who share their caving knowledge with posts, the better for the NSS. I wanted to make it more of a daily stop for cavers where they can discuss not only caving, but also other topics that interest them. That's one of my goals as administrator of the forum. I think, with nearly 700 users, we have a broad expertise base to address questions and issues and have in-depth conversations on a broad range of subjects.
Regarding the correction that the US Cavers Forum started in 2004 as posted earlier, I was under the impression the URL was actually used as the Huntsville Grotto Forum in 2004 and it continued to January 2005, when it went into a hiatus before being reincarnated in the summer of 2005 and changing its focus to a more national level. Whatever its start, it is good to have additional resources out there for cavers. I enjoy visiting the various caving Web sites, including the US Cavers Forum. I do appreciate everyone's participation on the NSS forum and your continued support of the NSS in general.
For those who are reading this and who haven't visited, the NSS Forum is at cavechat.org.
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Rock
Beginner
Rock
Posts: 57
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Post by Rock on Mar 8, 2006 15:04:18 GMT -5
Kelly, Tom is responsible for the content of his OVP report. How the officers collect information for their reports is up to them. There is no "official" format for the officers to use to prepare their reports to the Board. (You can see this by looking at the batch of reports from the officers for the upcoming Board meeting that are now on the NSS Web site.) The NSS forum is a tool to serve the NSS fellowship clause of our purpose, and to further education about caves and caving, and we hope in some way it helps attract and retain members. The more active and interesting it is, and the more people who share their caving knowledge with posts, the better for the NSS. I wanted to make it more of a daily stop for cavers where they can discuss not only caving, but also other topics that interest them. That's one of my goals as administrator of the forum. I think, with nearly 700 users, we have a broad expertise base to address questions and issues and have in-depth conversations on a broad range of subjects. Regarding the correction that the US Cavers Forum started in 2004 as posted earlier, I was under the impression the URL was actually used as the Huntsville Grotto Forum in 2004 and it continued to January 2005, when it went into a hiatus before being reincarnated in the summer of 2005 and changing its focus to a more national level. Whatever its start, it is good to have additional resources out there for cavers. I enjoy visiting the various caving Web sites, including the US Cavers Forum. I do appreciate everyone's participation on the NSS forum and your continued support of the NSS in general. OMG! I just did not know you could get baloney and spam in the same post?  Don't freak out Harrison - but Caver Discussion Boards will soon be as plentiful as web sites. How are U going to monitor and report to the NSS OVP on all of them? Check out the thread on Colorado Caves.org: Caving Discussion Board Wars! coloradocaves.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=329 |
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guanonoggin
Beginner
Dude Caving
U.S. Caver Dude
Posts: 115
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Post by guanonoggin on Mar 8, 2006 18:22:12 GMT -5
Regarding the correction that the US Cavers Forum started in 2004 as posted earlier, I was under the impression the URL was actually used as the Huntsville Grotto Forum in 2004 and it continued to January 2005, when it went into a hiatus before being reincarnated in the summer of 2005 and changing its focus to a more national level. I don't recall that anyone here needs a caver discussion board cop?  Do something useful and go have a donut.  |
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Post by Sharon Faulkner on Mar 8, 2006 19:01:17 GMT -5
Regarding the correction that the US Cavers Forum started in 2004 as posted earlier, I was under the impression the URL was actually used as the Huntsville Grotto Forum in 2004 and it continued to January 2005, when it went into a hiatus before being reincarnated in the summer of 2005 and changing its focus to a more national level. Not sure how you could get such an impression Wayne, but no, this forum was started in early 2004 as a national level forum and was never connected to any Huntsville Grotto Forum. I'm a member of Huntsville Grotto, but am not aware of Huntsville having any forums other than the grotto website and Yahoo! e-groups. That's not to say that they don't have any, I just don't know about them if they exist. This information has been posted on this forum before, but I guess it bears repeating with the renewed interest being generated lately. This forum was created when NSS DB #2 ceased to exist in 2004, and has continued without interruption since that time (2004). This forum also surpassed the short lifespan of NSS DB #3 (2004 - 2005). This forum has never been highly publicized, but neither was the forum kept secret from others. In fact, the URL was posted on the now deceased NSS DB #3 in the thread listed below: 64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:eo1IrBnnHvcJ:www.caves.org/soapbox/printthread.php%3Ft%3D213+nssmembersforum&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5or here is the tiny URL if the long one breaks: tinyurl.com/gn9ssThe URL was also posted on the Birmingham Grotto list serve on June 12, 2004, which Cavechat.org moderator Martha Mills should be able to confirm for you. When the NSS website crashed in August 2005, taking NSS DB #3 along with it, we offered this forum for use as a substitute forum for NSS Discussion Board users until the NSS DB was once again functioning. At the time we offered the use of this forum we did not know that NSS DB #3 had met a gruesome and permanent demise, and offered this forum only in the spirit of keeping the lines of communication open between NSS members. I'm sure you remember what happened from this point onward and none of it paints a pretty picture, so I won't dredge that Horror up again. Hopefully this information will correct your false impression of this forum. If not, I'm pretty much stumped on what will and can only reiterate the message that this forum is not in a competition with any other forum.  |
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Post by Wayne Harrison on Mar 8, 2006 21:51:52 GMT -5
Sharon, Thanks very much for clearing up the history of the US Cavers Forum for me. The reason I was confused about its start was partly because the Internet Archive cached copies of the current USCavers URL only twice -- in 2004 and 2005 and each cache showed the URL with a Huntsville Grotto header: I'm not sure why. Sept. 28, 2004 web.archive.org/web/20040928084517/Jan. 21, 2005 web.archive.org/web/20050121030017/There were no other "snapshots" of the URL during that period, for some reason. The Internet Archive is a great place to look at original versions of Web sites, like eBay and Google. They claim to have cached everything on the Internet since Jan. 1996. As you probably know, Scott used the Internet Archive to resurrect old posts on the NSS forum. It's a great resource. I think you're all doing a splendid job here, and wish you and everyone involved the best of luck with the board. Contrary to what you indicated in an earlier post, I really don't have a problem with this caving forum, or any other caving forum for that matter. It's just a matter of finding your niche. As you all know, administrating a board takes a lot of time and so I know you'll understand when I say I need to get back to the NSS forum and this will be my last post here. From the comments here it's apparent to me that there are strong feelings and I don't want to cause any further distraction to your forum's mission of concentrating on caves and caving as Dan stated earlier. |
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Post by madratdan on Mar 8, 2006 22:54:09 GMT -5
You can stop by and post here any time you want Wayne. That's what we are here for..................
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Rock
Beginner
Rock
Posts: 57
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Post by Rock on Mar 9, 2006 11:19:40 GMT -5
lalalala well he never answered my questions. |
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Post by Taylor on Mar 10, 2006 21:33:55 GMT -5
I apologize in advance for touching upon this issue again. I have had a difficult time swallowing the obviously punitive nature of the original report. Let me see if I've got this straight..... Tom decides what he reports to the NSS Board, and I (and Tom) regret that a private report was inadvertently made public. Even if Tom Rea had inadvertently published a private report, it still would not explain why Harrison sent the OVP false information. This has proved to be a false statement. Is Harrison responsible for reporting correct data when acting in the position of an IT Subcommittee Chairman or is that not necessary for committee reports? Committee chairmen are responsible for reporting to officers on activities three times a year. The NSS of course is interested in the performance of its discussion board. In addition, I felt it was important to report that many of our former moderators had expressed an interest in participating in forum management once again, and that the forum had grown to the point where we needed their help. Fair enough, this information should be reported as committee activities to the OVP, except Harrison reported this: The number of post NSS moderators have made on the NSS forum would be relevant information to the committee report, for example; out of the 9,604 post on the NSS forum, the moderators have made 2,156 of the total posts; broken down as follows: Wayne Harrison-574 Cheryl Jones-264 Martha Mills-140 Phil Winkler-303 Scott McCrea-302 Barbara Am Ende-399 Tim White-51 Glen Mills-123 In contrast to what was insinuated however, not a single one of her posts have been removed, for they did not violate the Terms of Service. Ah yes, old school tactical warfare, lie about someone and fault them if they complain. Harrison not only insinuated that she had not posted on the forum, but reported to Tom Rea that all of the former moderators were posting with the exception of her. As Administrator of the forum, I would expect Harrison to have greater access to the information regarding number of user posts than others would. After making this statement in his subcommittee report, Harrison went on to use each of his posts on U.S. Cavers forum to advance his personal agenda of NSS forum promotion. (Something he also does on the Colorado caves forum.) Then under the guise of confusion, he questioned the origins of this forum, and when given what appeared to be a sincere response by a moderator, Harrison responded with outdated URL's in one final parting shot attempt to further discredit this forum. Did I miss anything?  Frankly, from my seat, the moderators of this forum were overly generous allowing Harrison to express his ideas, something he has not done with participants he has been in disagreement with on the NSS forum. Yet he still used each post he made on this forum as another opportunity to malign this forum, while insisting he liked this forum in the same breath. Now I'm done. <goes back to neutral corner> |
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Rock
Beginner
Rock
Posts: 57
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Post by Rock on Mar 10, 2006 22:03:55 GMT -5
Yup, I think you got it!!  IMHO The moderators should moderate ALL Harrisons posts! Or at the very least pleazzzzzzzzzzzz remove THE BALONEY and THE SPAM. |
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Post by madratdan on Mar 11, 2006 0:00:35 GMT -5
Only the apology from Wayne and Tom to Lynn and Sharon.  Are volunteers supposed to apologize to other volunteers or is it a moot point because we are all volunteers? |
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Brian Roebuck
Site Admin
Caver
Caving - the one activity that really brings you to your knees!
Posts: 2,732
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Post by Brian Roebuck on Mar 11, 2006 10:10:18 GMT -5
Only the apology from Wayne and Tom to Lynn and Sharon. Are volunteers supposed to apologize to other volunteers or is it a moot point because we are all volunteers? Ahh but Dan my friend - to apologise would mean admitting to doing something wrong.  Thus I don't expect to see such a public display of humanity from Harrison do you? Actually with some controversy brewing here and there many more folks tend to surf in and view the buffoonery. Perhaps that strengthens this forum instead of hurts it. Sort of like the Janet Jackson flashing incident at the Superbowl - even bad publicity is still publicity! I love the freedom of posting here versus hyper-controlled forums. I feel like I am among friends and cavers instead of back in kindergarten being slapped with a ruler for talking out of turn. Long live US Cavers! ;D |
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Real fair all right. 
Thus I don't expect to see such a public display of humanity from Harrison do you? Actually with some controversy brewing here and there many more folks tend to surf in and view the buffoonery. Perhaps that strengthens this forum instead of hurts it. Sort of like the Janet Jackson flashing incident at the Superbowl - even bad publicity is still publicity!