Post by Chad Dubuisson on Feb 15, 2009 4:41:32 GMT -5
So I’m looking to buy a hammer drill in the next few months and I thought the intelligent thing to do would be to ask around and get feedback as to what drills people are using in hardcore caving now and whether or not they like their performance and why. I suppose what I’m trying to start here is a thread about hammer drills to find out if there is a best choice for caving use based on 3 criteria I have and any more anyone can suggest:
1. Performance: how effective is the drill at hammering the rock. The impact energy is usually measured in Joules. Usually, the higher the power of the tool (volts), the more effective the drilling action (<Joules)
2. Cost: how much is the total package going to cost; drill, battery, pelican case? Not including drill bits.
3. Size: how well will the entire equipment package down and travel into a hell cave.
If you can think of other criteria which I’m not describing covered in these 3, please let me know. That’s why I’m asking.
I’ve done quite a bit of research so far which could save some time explaining things to me, but so far, I’m torn between the importances of performance verse size. The caves I tend to visit are severe, punishing holes at times. I’m slightly tilled towards the value of size and weight over performance. I wanted to talk about this to learn the following things:
Why buy a 36 volt drill instead of an 18 volt drill?
Here’s where I’m coming from: I have used Hilti tools for years and consider them the best made. They also sometimes tend to be the most expensive tools too. There are only 2 Hilti drills which I consider applicable to caving, based on cost alone.
The TE 2A:
This is a fine drill, with a max bit size of about 5/8”. It is a 24 volt platform. Cost anywhere from $200-$450.
The TE 6A:
This is probably the most powerful electric drill taken into caves these days; it is a 36 volt platform. Cost: you can find them used on ebay for $250-$450 depending on batteries included. Weighs 8lbs.
Another excellent and seemingly popular contender is the Hitachi DH25DAL.
It too appears well built and powerful as a 25.2 volt platform. It delivers 2.8 Joules and weigh almost 8lbs. Costs: About $630 w/ 2 batteries.
The final choice I’m seriously considering is the Makita 18volt LXT hammer drill. Cost: about $380 w/ 2 Batteries
It is not as powerful as the others, but at 1.9 Joules, 18volts seems like plenty enough power to drill a hole as big as 1/2,” which is as big as I’ll ever need it to be able to drill. It costs about $380 reconditioned with a couple of Lithium Ion battery packs. I just wonder how long the battery packs would last.
To me, the Makita also has one ultimately redeeming feature that I just can’t seem to escape noticing: the unique, elongated design of the drill body allows it to reach into places the other drills would seemingly have problems getting into. You can surely remove that handle allowing you to use the tool almost like a sawzall. The battery is the lowest profile of any of the drills I’ve looked at and it’s the cheapest of all the drills I’m considering.
One thing I’d like to try to understand if someone can explain it: is there any kind of advantage of using say a 36volt drill verse the 18volt drill, besides shear power and speed? What I mean here is, I have time, if that’s all that’s needed. I have used a Hilti to pop a bolt hole in under a minute with blinding speed. I know the Makita drill wouldn’t drill the hole that fast, but, if it still drilled it in 2-3 minutes, then that wouldn’t be too bad.
Is it just the shear transfer of energy that is at stake here or is there an advantage of going one way or the other or does it matter. If you have to drill a hole X wide by Y deep, then will a 36 volt Hilti do the hole in say P time and the 18 Makita do the same hole in 2P time, because it’s got only half the power? I’d like to get better educated how this principle applies to what we’re doing in a hammer drill. Is the 36v more efficient at that voltage for the power consumption then the 18v model?
I assume there is some way to measure how much ½” bolt hole one could drill with each of these drills to get an idea of what the battery would give you. Of course too, you could build yourself a larger Li-on battery pack for several hundred dollars and then you can drill plenty more holes. This is my ultimate goal, to buy a dedicated large battery pack to go with the drill.
I will be doing a combination of bolting, bolt climbing and micro-shaving with this drill, in pretty severe caves. It is here where I also again come to what I feel are the virtues of the Makita alone. It appears that it would pack up very small. Remove the battery pack, unscrew the grip handle, retract the depth gauge and the entire drilling unit would pack up very efficiently into a small, padded dry bag or pelican case, which as we all know is one of the most important virtues of any piece of equipment right after purpose of use.
The designs of the other drills seem to conduct themselves to requiring a possibly larger size pelican case or larger dry bag. If you don’t use a case, you need a really tough dry bag lined with a closed cell foam “glove” to pad the drill to go inside your cave pack for travel into the cave. This will protect it from the various bangs and crashes it’s bound to encounter while underground. I know the Lithium ion battery packs have to be treated with the greatest of care because they can be like little bombs if you aren’t careful.
If anyone owns any of these drills or other ones you’ve found work well caving, please share your thoughts.
1. Performance: how effective is the drill at hammering the rock. The impact energy is usually measured in Joules. Usually, the higher the power of the tool (volts), the more effective the drilling action (<Joules)
2. Cost: how much is the total package going to cost; drill, battery, pelican case? Not including drill bits.
3. Size: how well will the entire equipment package down and travel into a hell cave.
If you can think of other criteria which I’m not describing covered in these 3, please let me know. That’s why I’m asking.
I’ve done quite a bit of research so far which could save some time explaining things to me, but so far, I’m torn between the importances of performance verse size. The caves I tend to visit are severe, punishing holes at times. I’m slightly tilled towards the value of size and weight over performance. I wanted to talk about this to learn the following things:
Why buy a 36 volt drill instead of an 18 volt drill?
Here’s where I’m coming from: I have used Hilti tools for years and consider them the best made. They also sometimes tend to be the most expensive tools too. There are only 2 Hilti drills which I consider applicable to caving, based on cost alone.
The TE 2A:
This is a fine drill, with a max bit size of about 5/8”. It is a 24 volt platform. Cost anywhere from $200-$450.
The TE 6A:
This is probably the most powerful electric drill taken into caves these days; it is a 36 volt platform. Cost: you can find them used on ebay for $250-$450 depending on batteries included. Weighs 8lbs.
Another excellent and seemingly popular contender is the Hitachi DH25DAL.
It too appears well built and powerful as a 25.2 volt platform. It delivers 2.8 Joules and weigh almost 8lbs. Costs: About $630 w/ 2 batteries.
The final choice I’m seriously considering is the Makita 18volt LXT hammer drill. Cost: about $380 w/ 2 Batteries
It is not as powerful as the others, but at 1.9 Joules, 18volts seems like plenty enough power to drill a hole as big as 1/2,” which is as big as I’ll ever need it to be able to drill. It costs about $380 reconditioned with a couple of Lithium Ion battery packs. I just wonder how long the battery packs would last.
To me, the Makita also has one ultimately redeeming feature that I just can’t seem to escape noticing: the unique, elongated design of the drill body allows it to reach into places the other drills would seemingly have problems getting into. You can surely remove that handle allowing you to use the tool almost like a sawzall. The battery is the lowest profile of any of the drills I’ve looked at and it’s the cheapest of all the drills I’m considering.
One thing I’d like to try to understand if someone can explain it: is there any kind of advantage of using say a 36volt drill verse the 18volt drill, besides shear power and speed? What I mean here is, I have time, if that’s all that’s needed. I have used a Hilti to pop a bolt hole in under a minute with blinding speed. I know the Makita drill wouldn’t drill the hole that fast, but, if it still drilled it in 2-3 minutes, then that wouldn’t be too bad.
Is it just the shear transfer of energy that is at stake here or is there an advantage of going one way or the other or does it matter. If you have to drill a hole X wide by Y deep, then will a 36 volt Hilti do the hole in say P time and the 18 Makita do the same hole in 2P time, because it’s got only half the power? I’d like to get better educated how this principle applies to what we’re doing in a hammer drill. Is the 36v more efficient at that voltage for the power consumption then the 18v model?
I assume there is some way to measure how much ½” bolt hole one could drill with each of these drills to get an idea of what the battery would give you. Of course too, you could build yourself a larger Li-on battery pack for several hundred dollars and then you can drill plenty more holes. This is my ultimate goal, to buy a dedicated large battery pack to go with the drill.
I will be doing a combination of bolting, bolt climbing and micro-shaving with this drill, in pretty severe caves. It is here where I also again come to what I feel are the virtues of the Makita alone. It appears that it would pack up very small. Remove the battery pack, unscrew the grip handle, retract the depth gauge and the entire drilling unit would pack up very efficiently into a small, padded dry bag or pelican case, which as we all know is one of the most important virtues of any piece of equipment right after purpose of use.
The designs of the other drills seem to conduct themselves to requiring a possibly larger size pelican case or larger dry bag. If you don’t use a case, you need a really tough dry bag lined with a closed cell foam “glove” to pad the drill to go inside your cave pack for travel into the cave. This will protect it from the various bangs and crashes it’s bound to encounter while underground. I know the Lithium ion battery packs have to be treated with the greatest of care because they can be like little bombs if you aren’t careful.
If anyone owns any of these drills or other ones you’ve found work well caving, please share your thoughts.