NSS Office move!

[Kelly]

There certainly are ignorant people everywhere, no doubt about that! The difference between Kentucky and other places is that there are people who actually will fight it. Outside of Kentucky when these projects pop up, there is no one around to even put forth the question. There are only the very few of us to say anything and no one with the power to put up a real fight. For example, there was a piece of property here in GA that a prominent company wanted to put an industrial landfill. Mind you, certain industrial landfills are not required to have a liner and the State rules say no building on karst. The property had several sink holes on it. They worked out an agreement with out engineers here at the state that putting 15 feet of fill into the sink holes will hold it forever and were given the permit with absolutely no interest by the public. The site is located right next to one of our more major rivers. Right out in the public, it was all done and no one except the geologist said anything. The engineers all agreed it was a fine plan, so basically ignored the geologist.

Another example was presented at the Sinkholes conference in Huntsville a few years ago. A PhD geologist who happens to be a caver was working for the city at the time and noticed that construction of an area highway was putting silt into the (huge) system that underlies Huntsville and Huntsville's water supply. A developer moved in and wanted to develop a neighborhood on a hilltop adjacent to the road. The hillside was littered with sinkholes that, you guessed it, also drains right into the major system underlying Huntsville. The geologist from the city was actually able to stop the process, because he was there. This geologist has since moved to, you guessed it, Kentucky (WKU). Now who will protect the city? And if the NSS leaves the area??

We really need to spread things out here. Mammoth is an awesome system with many features more worthy of protection than many cave systems. Still I don't think we should concentrate all our karst education in one area making people think these kinds of things only exist around Mammoth. There are other major systems that need tending outside Kentucky.

Maybe they should keep the library in Huntsville (cost, location, and support reasons) and put the museum in Missouri or someplace that is in need as well.

Kelly

[madratdan]

I say we can have our cake and eat it too. Instead of a disruptive move, I say we expand and start a second facility. One that could get the word out and make money at the same time. Here is a preview of what I'm planning to post on the other board.


Thinking outside the box.
One thing Lester told the 2011 convention planning committee was to think outside the box.......cus that's what caver's do. So how about we give it a try here and make this a win win situation instead of a pissing match? See if you can follow me and maybe expand on my idea's in a positive way.......or flame the hell out of me if you want.

So I ask....Why put all our eggs in the same spot? Why can't we have two locations for people to visit? Two location headquarters? You say we can't afford it....I say we can afford both with the proper business plan. (Being a small businessman I tend to look at ways to make money) Here we go....remember talk is cheap.....and caver's are even cheaper.


Lets say we buy this building on main street to display our museum, gift shop, bookstore and artwork in Horse Cave Kentucky. The price in the proposal is about what we have to spend and borrow against, from what Peri posted earlier. Inside this building we could focus on displaying our wares and informing the public about what the NSS is all about, for a lot of us...which is..... Educating the public on everything to do with caves and caving.

This "tourist trap" area couldn't be more perfect to both. They are already in the area to visit caves and such. They will visit us too if we are there for them to visit. (If you build it...they will come)I bet we can make enough money to cover all our operating expenses...and achieve the goal of educating the public....with plenty of money left over. (Of coarse, without a real business plan, this is all pure speculation.) So how do we make this money? Like every other business there....off the tourists. They are there to spend money....so let's help them spend it.

Maybe like Dangerjudy stated, people don't want to look at our museum stuff. I disagree. It's all about presentation and atmosphere. People will pay to look at anything as long as it is displayed properly and interestingly. It all needs to flow together and tell a story or history as you walk through it. If you just put it in a cabinet to look at without explanation or in a boring manner....then yes it will look like a bunch of junk. But if you concentrate on the atmosphere and decor of the display people will pay to see it.

Art is another thing that tourists like to view. Are there any cave specific art galleries out there in the area? We could sure put together a really good as we could draw off of what is displayed at conventions. Artists could display there works there and sell them to boot. We could collect a commission from the sale and still charge a small admission to the public to view it. This could also include original photographs and whatever else we hold salons for. Peoples music could be compiled and sold on CD's and tapes. Videos could be both shown and sold in the gift shop/book store. We could put in a small movie theater that runs 15 minute movies for a small fee. The possibilities are endless and open to the imagination.

Establish a satellite library there and Huntsville concentrates on sending duplicates to build a second library and free up their own office space. If the new building is big enough we can rent out office space or store front to help us pay our own bills. If things don't work out, the NSS will still have what we started with. A safe and secure office in Huntsville.

[Azurerana]

Kelly, Missouri does not WANT anything connected to the NSS. Let me make that perfectly clear. We're still repairing damage from 1997 over 10 years later. We've got 20 years to go on that.

For the record, I mostly agree with Dan. I'd like to see the office stay in Huntsville, with the Huntsville folks to continue to care for the Shelta Preserve,and the museum/library moved to Kentucky. This, of course, is not the proposal as presented. I don't care which is the primary/satellite libraries-- perhaps the library could be broken into an archival and circulating library. For the circulating portion Kentucky is more centrally located. I do not agree that digital is the total future of any library, (there will never be any difficulty reading paper) but for the circulating portion it most definite is, and a backup archive is a wonderful thing.

[L Roebuck]

Well....there goes the 'proposed' neighborhood....

Hart County Meth Bust

Stevie McBride, 41, is lodged in the Hart County Jail charged with making and possessing methamphetamine. possessing drug paraphernalia, and trafficking within 1,000 yards of a school.

Full Text

[Azurerana]

Dec 24, 2008 10:07:55 GMT -5 L Roebuck said:

Well....there goes the 'proposed' neighborhood....

Hart County Meth Bust

Nah. I hope it's not the case where you are, but meth busts are a dime a dozen around here. No decent jobs, Chrysler shutting down, also, the ancillary manufacturing plants-- I live in one of the top 5 counties in Missouri for meth busts-- the cops are good, but most of the people making meth are either addicts themselves, or non-users who cannot find legitimate work, and know a little homebrew chemistry. One neighboring county even lists "was this a meth house?"on its real estate listings.

This will increase, everywhere, unless and until decent livable jobs ($10-12/hr) for non-college educated folk come back. It is the moonshine of the 2000s. It's not a matter of people being stupid, or ill-educated-- I cannot recall the last person I know who was let go for poor performance,and not because the company sent the job to China, or Mexico or Indonesia. My brother, who is a very smart, technically educated fellow -- 1st class FCC license, Extra Class ham license, Jr. college electronics tech certificate, Advanced classes in Linux, Unix, C+, C++ and 30 years as an electronics test designer and engineer (who can also do electronics assembly work without burning himself) is out of work because he has had 4 companies fold underneath him through merger, buyouts, offshoring, etc. No, he doesn't have a BSEE, but has in fact served on numerous committees to hire BSEE and MSEEs, most of whom,as he said, "Don't know enough not to pick up the smoking end of a soldering gun" -- has been out of work over a year...companies want to hire someone 22, stupid, and willing to work for Wal-Mart wages, where he is actually the better value (and no, he's not a high wage hire, either, he's mostly made in the range of $25,000-$30,000--).

He' s not going into the meth business, but it's really frustrating to see people who are good honest workers reduced to such things-- that's why I"m working 2 part-time jobs and freelancing with no vacation or benefits even though I've got two college degrees...no healthcare or 401K, or anything...and it takes about 50 hours a week to make ends meet on my lower middle class, Target, Wal-Mart, IGA lifestyle.