|
|
Post by redbarry on Jul 8, 2008 15:19:30 GMT -5
I have a rock that was blasted from a cave during construction of a highway here in Kentucky back in the 1960's. Would it be alright to post a picture of it? My family and I have wondered what the carving represents and I thought maybe someone here could identify it. Thanks, Redbarry
|
|
|
|
Post by Rebel Rouser on Jul 8, 2008 22:52:31 GMT -5
Post away!
|
|
|
|
Post by Azurerana on Jul 8, 2008 23:01:43 GMT -5
If it's not something which is overtly obscene, I'd say post it. The best way would be put a moderately sized jpeg or png image (100-500K) on your website, or a hosting site like Image Shack, and then link to it. If you have multiple images, pick the sharpest one you have with the best, most realistic contrast..
If the moderators find it offensive, I'm sure someone will notify you.
|
|
|
|
Post by redbarry on Jul 8, 2008 23:39:07 GMT -5
It's not offensive. Just some lines chiseled into stone. I'll get a pic and post it. Thanks, Barry.
|
|
|
|
Post by redbarry on Jul 9, 2008 0:23:24 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by redbarry on Jul 9, 2008 0:27:15 GMT -5
|
|
L Roebuck
Technical Support
Caving
^V^ Just a caver
Posts: 2,023
|
Post by L Roebuck on Jul 9, 2008 6:43:30 GMT -5
I'm no expert ... but my first impression is the photo is of drill marks from the blasting.
|
|
|
|
Post by madratdan on Jul 9, 2008 7:44:11 GMT -5
I'm no expert ... but my first impression is the photo is of drill marks from the blasting. I wouldn't say blasting. Maybe feather and wedge holes. (That's another way to break rock .) |
|
|
|
Post by Azurerana on Jul 9, 2008 9:43:23 GMT -5
I'm no expert ... but my first impression is the photo is of drill marks from the blasting. I wouldn't say blasting. Maybe feather and wedge holes. (That's another way to break rock .) Well, they are square like feathers and wedge, but they appear to be entirely smooth like drill marks. Feather marks are usually larger than this, rougher, and not so closely spaced. What is the light colored streak in the left hand corner? a scratch, or some sort of foreign matter? Was the cave ever electrically lighted? This looks more like a wall mount for a recessed light fixture than either drilling, feathering or blasting. You said you 'found the rock'. Any clue as to the context of this? Wall? Ceiling? Was it a singular piece, or were there others? Was the cave used for anything by people that you know of before it's destruction? Definitely something manmade...not geological. |
|
L Roebuck
Technical Support
Caving
^V^ Just a caver
Posts: 2,023
|
Post by L Roebuck on Jul 9, 2008 10:15:16 GMT -5
So hey,  I may have been a bit quick on my first impression. But I just noticed something else - if this was made by drilling or a plug and feather - the marks would likely enter from the top of the rock. |
|
|
|
Post by redbarry on Jul 9, 2008 13:06:23 GMT -5
The carving was in the floor. It was discovered many years before the blasting. After the blasting, the man who retrieved it said the cave was partially intact and this piece was lying in the rubble.
|
|
|
|
Post by jonsdigs on Jul 9, 2008 17:24:14 GMT -5
The marks do not appear to be feather and wedge holes which would be half round. They appear to be worn or ground into the rock. This is further supported by the oval center cavity.
Perhaps they were made to provide a steady base for, or were made by something that vibrated if they were in the floor. Maybe this is why there appears to be rust in the top of the groove third to the left.
|
|
|
|
Post by redbarry on Jul 9, 2008 18:37:57 GMT -5
The rusty color is from storing in our barn for the last 10 or 15 years. The rock was limestone white before that. Do you recommend cleaning it? I am sure it is some sort of sign or writing. The cave was near the Nolin river in Hardin County, Kentucky. I would guess running water smoothed the edges over the years. By the way, the blasting was due to the construction of the Western Kentucky Parkway (now called Wendell H Ford Parkway) between 1961 and 1963. It was first seen in the cave in the mid 1950's.
Can someone tell me what this style of carving is called???
|
|
L Roebuck
Technical Support
Caving
^V^ Just a caver
Posts: 2,023
|
Post by L Roebuck on Jul 10, 2008 8:26:06 GMT -5
It is difficult to tell from just a photo but the marks appear to be more squared on the upper end and also four of the grooves look very symmetrical to me ... ummm from these photo's I'm more inclined to think these marks probably were made by a mechanical process. Maybe if we could see more detail it would help. Can you take a close up photo of the interior detail of the grooves?
redbarry petroglyph's are images created by removing part of a rock surfaces by incising, pecking, carving, and abrading. A pictograph is an image drawn or painted on a rock face. Petroglyph's and pictograph's can be found all over the world and may often -but not always- be associated with the prehistoric peoples.
|
|
|
|
Post by Azurerana on Jul 10, 2008 21:22:28 GMT -5
Was the cave (or caves in the area) used for saltpeter mining? I tend to agree with jonsdigs that it is an incised base for something, but one would not have done the rock carving unless they intended to be there awhile. What other industries in a cave would have needed some sort of rocker?
I tend to think the grooves are not writing, nor archeological petroglyphs. Jonsdigs, I've seen feathers and wedge in place with square feathers. Maybe it is a midwest thing. But I think the carved base for machinery of some type is more likely. Even in limestone, these took some time to do without power carving machinery.
|
|
|
|
Post by redbarry on Jul 10, 2008 21:47:23 GMT -5
It came from a cave in a poor rural farm community. No electricity. No mining in the area. Feather and wedge is not an option. The holes would be vertically drilled for that. If you drilled the 4 holes on the side, how could you drill the center one??? Have you seen a square drill bit? The way you see it is the way it was discovered in the floor over 50 years ago. Some of you have said the lines look too symmetrical. Don't you think ancient people were capable of making a straight line? The lines are not that straight anyway.
The University of Kentucky examined it years ago and said it was old but could not determine what it was.
If it is a fake, it still must have a meaning. Whoever and whenever the carving was done was trying to convey something. My mom and dad have over 5000 pieces and many books in their collection and are very knowledgeable in this field. They have never seen anything like it. I guess it will remain a mystery.
Oh well, thanks guys for your help. Barry.
|
|
Brian Roebuck
Site Admin
Caver
Caving - the one activity that really brings you to your knees!
Posts: 2,732
|
Post by Brian Roebuck on Jul 11, 2008 5:37:58 GMT -5
There is no way to determine the age of the carving from your photos so we are all guessing. It is some form of petroglyph as far as I am concerned but bears no resemblance to any native american symbols I have seen. Saltpeter miners occasionally had time to add their marks and odd art to cave walls, floors and ceilings. Many of them were slaves or very poor peoples that may not have had much education. Some likely had African tribal backgrounds as well with their own cultures and symbols. Thus it is possible it is something made by a miner but I have no idea why or what it might be trying to convey - if anything. They did have a habit of scratching talley marks for bags of peter dirt hauled etc here and there. Perhaps this is related to that activity. Whatever it is it did take a long time to do and appears to have been done carefully with as much accuracy as hand tools would permit working in rock. Interesting indeed but not readily identifiable.
|
|
L Roebuck
Technical Support
Caving
^V^ Just a caver
Posts: 2,023
|
Post by L Roebuck on Jul 11, 2008 11:00:43 GMT -5
It came from a cave in a poor rural farm community. No electricity. No mining in the area. Feather and wedge is not an option. The holes would be vertically drilled for that. If you drilled the 4 holes on the side, how could you drill the center one??? Have you seen a square drill bit? The way you see it is the way it was discovered in the floor over 50 years ago. Some of you have said the lines look too symmetrical. Don't you think ancient people were capable of making a straight line? The lines are not that straight anyway. The University of Kentucky examined it years ago and said it was old but could not determine what it was. If it is a fake, it still must have a meaning. Whoever and whenever the carving was done was trying to convey something. My mom and dad have over 5000 pieces and many books in their collection and are very knowledgeable in this field. They have never seen anything like it. I guess it will remain a mystery. Oh well, thanks guys for your help. Barry. Sure I imagine ancient people were capable of carving a straight line, but from my experiences, this image does not resemble any petroglyphs I have encountered so far. Perhaps you would prefer an expert in Prehistoric Cave Art to take a look at the photo? |
|
|
|
Post by deepcaver on Oct 30, 2008 12:08:58 GMT -5
 Throw it away before it's too late... those are markings made by ancient zombie alien satanic hodags for their religious debauchery, every 10,000 years they return to earth and suck the brains out of the holder of the sacred stone through their noses. Run Run far away from it as you can... you're no longer safe... Actually I have no idear. But then it is coming up on Halloween 
|
|
I may have been a bit quick on my first impression. But I just noticed something else - if this was made by drilling or a plug and feather - the marks would likely enter from the top of the rock. 
