guanonoggin
Beginner
Dude Caving
U.S. Caver Dude
Posts: 115
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Post by guanonoggin on Jun 18, 2006 8:53:51 GMT -5
Vader Dude, These geocacher types only need to be able to like read, hike, and use a GPS or map to have fun finding these caches right? I hear most of these caches are on the surface of the planet instead of friggin deep inside it! Just about anyone can do it with almost no training, gear, or big friggin effort. So it figures man that there are lots of geocachin dudes and dudettes around out there! So Vader - no offense man - cavers are like different enough to really enjoy crawling, climbing, rappelling, digging, swimming, and mudsliding around in caves just to see what is there rather than finding a hidden treasure some other human left behind with some clues on how to find it. There's really no freaking comparison between the two groups man IMHO. It would be cool to find out what percent of each group is really out there doin stuff though. And I'm sure you know there's more cavers out there than the "NSS 12000" going caving! Hey - do what turns you on man. Chucky has no prob with that! ;D Peace PS: I surfed in and saw a post this AM showing a cave location (Krubera Cave - topo coords and all man) on the NSS Discussion board! Didn't they bust your chops over that a while back? Bad Karma man!  |
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Post by Vader on Jun 18, 2006 9:40:58 GMT -5
But isn't that comparing apples to oranges?  Ya!! it is. I guess I over stated my point. I was just trying to point out that Geocaching is a popular sport and that from your average point of view many people have an easier time understanding why somebody would Geocache, than why somebody would go caving. When I tell most of my Non-Caver friends about my last caving adventure, the common response is "You do that stuff on purpose?" |
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Post by Vader on Jun 18, 2006 10:06:26 GMT -5
Vader Dude, These geocacher types only need to be able to like read, hike, and use a GPS or map to have fun finding these caches right? Well.. For your average cache. There are several caches around here that are difficult to get to. Since I have been spending more time caving than I have been Geocaching, there just are not that many difficult caches left. Well, at least in my area. There used to be one around here that required a 90 foot rap. If you want to find some difficult ones go on the site and search for caches with a difficulty of 5. Some Geocaches can be very difficult when it comes to smarts. Some of the Geocaches contain a puzzle or two that must be worked out before the cache can be found. Vader - no offense man - cavers are like different enough to really enjoy crawling, climbing, rappelling, digging, swimming, and mudsliding around in caves just to see what is there rather than finding a hidden treasure some other human left behind with some clues on how to find it. There's really no freaking comparison between the two groups man IMHO. I am not trying to say who is tougher. I see your point, that only one out of ten people might be qualified to be a caver and the rest could go Geocaching. PS: I surfed in and saw a post this AM showing a cave location (Krubera Cave - topo coords and all man) on the NSS Discussion board! Didn't they bust your chops over that a while back? Bad Karma man! Ya, I didn't make that post on the NSS board. |
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Post by Azurerana on Jun 18, 2006 22:49:11 GMT -5
The purpose of geocaching is to learn how to use those GPS thingies. I don't think you really get it. Sorry, Vader... I *do* get it. While orienteering to a goal (route finding with compass and topo) has been around for eons, it was even more arcane than caving. I know. I was lead in circles on an orienteering course as a 10 year old in the 1960s by a Girl Scout leader who thought she knew where she was/where she was going. Even many cavers had trouble with it, and hence relied on guides who had been to the cave previously to get them there the first time. Geocaching didn't even *exist* until the advent of two hi-tech devices: the GPS unit with the military scramble mostly removed, and the Internet. While the puzzle/encrypted caches can be quite challenging, the concept that one puts two number sets into a little box, and then follows the box until arriving where the two number sets intersect is actually very simple, and the worst part of it is still route finding (when the little box tells you to go straight up a 200 foot sheer cliff, for example. Hence, my description of geocaching as an exercise to learn how to use the little box still stands. Once you figure out how to use the little box, then you can use the GPS for useful things, like natural feature location, like navigation via road to somewhere you've never been. and so forth. Until then, it is just a hi-tech toy. The other thing about geocaching-- there are any number of caches out there where the landowners don't know they exist, and one must tresspass on private land to get to them. This may not be a big deal in Colorado, but trespass can still be a shooting offense in the Ozarks. I commend the portion of the geocache community which has 'gone legit' and gets permission before placing caches, but most private land caches (and some on public land) have no such sanction. The downside of geocaching , too, is the beaten trails it makes. I've been to several places where the caches were easy to find in the last 200 feet, simply by the beaten path to its location. So, there is an environmental cost to geocaching, even when it doesn't happen inside a cave. I have no doubt cachers find it 'cool' to locate troves of tiny treasures in the apparent middle of nowhere, but in some sense, geocaching is no different than going to the mall in search of something, or antiquing, or flea marketing, or so forth. The little box just proves they aren't locals, because the locals knew the places were there all the time. |
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Post by Vader on Jun 19, 2006 1:11:44 GMT -5
azurerana, Now I really know you just don't get it. I am not saying that you don't understand what Geocaching is. I am saying that you don't see the attraction that some people have to the sport. Does that upset you? As for the problems that some Geocachers have with placing Geocaches on private property that has nothing to do with this Discussion. I don't know why you are dragging that up. Maybe next time you jump into the middle of a thread, you should have a better understanding of what the issues are. If you care to start another thread about Geocachers and why some caches are not on the up and up, then maybe somebody else would respond to it. Better yet why don't you bring this up on the Geocacing discussion board and maybe you could troll up a good fight there.  |
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Post by Azurerana on Jun 19, 2006 10:11:48 GMT -5
azurerana, Now I really know you just don't get it. I am not saying that you don't understand what Geocaching is. I am saying that you don't see the attraction that some people have to the sport. Does that upset you? No, because you are not qualified to say what I do or do not understand about geocaching. You're making an erroneous judgement about my 'understanding', based on about 4 paragraphs of my typing. Not a good idea. I know what the issues are. And I'm looking at them from the point of view of the landowner or public land manager. And coming up with different conclusions from yourself, a person who is obviously a big proponent of geocaching. As I understand it , this thread began because somone wanted to know what happened to the NSS Geocaching committee. That committee was formed to address the issue of conservation and safety issues related to geocaching in/near caves. Many caves in the east *are* on private property. We've turned in and gotten several caches removed from caves on state property, as well as from natural areas, and other places inappropriate for caches. We've seen the two largest state landholding agencies in Missouri develop rules for cache placement and permitting on state property. It's all part of the question: "What effect does geocaching have on lands which don't belong to the geocacher and how should they be managed?" I've been reading the thread from the start, and no, don't take kindly to the accusation that "I don't know what I am talking about.'" Tresspassing is trespassing, regardless if you have a GPS or not. Actually, trespassing with a GPS is probably more actionable in court, because without one, there is the legitimate excuse that one didn't know where he or she was. I'm not trolling for a fight. I'm just expressing a different point of view. I'm not out to save the geocachers from the errors of their ways, and wouldn't post on a geocaching discussion board (there are more than one of them) anymore than I would go to a vegan discussion board and extol the moral benefits of hunting, and steak tartare. If we didn't have different points of view, there would be no discussion. That is what discussion boards are all about. Enjoy your geocaching. Just don't expect me to be all caught up in its supposed glamor *|:-) |
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