Post by Azurerana on Sept 22, 2005 12:45:22 GMT -5
Copied from CavesRAll thread:
As a FYI to every one, for the time being I am refraining from giving my opinion on the controversy concerning cave location's until a time when "the bigger picture in the grand scheme of things" becomes clearer.
So Pretzl,...putting the location deal aside for now (and for this thread), what do you think about the difference in his approach reaching more people?
We've tried a couple of times to get 'mainline' cave orgs to have a different approach to getting the conservation and safety message out, but have been told repeately that this encouraged caving. All we get is more of the same in terms of people way too worried about looking good, and being uberresponsible. Responsible knowledgeable people (org caver or no) are not the threat to caves and karst.
There are many aspects of caves and caving which aren't centered on the L word. Some time back, there was a mass hue and cry about the Ozarks Xtreme gathering. Many of those same people are now the sponsors for the Fall MVOR. Now as a grayhair, I might not care for that sort of thing myself, but I cheer them on-- I know many of the 'respectable' cavers of today were wild and crazy youth, and they ran wild, and then later, they turned that energy into productivity. I 've seen it amongst younger people I've watched 'grow up'.
A religious analogy if I might:
The choir is too busy listening to themselves to look outside the church for people on different paths, IMO.
If we're gonna save the real sinners, we can invite them to the church social until we are blue in the face, or go into some fairly unsavory places and use some pretty unconventional approaches to get them to see the light.
Yet, we're always been told not to recruit from the unwashed, but to wait until they find us. I didn't learn much in church, but I did learn Jesus never saved the Pharisees.
Comments?
pretzlgirl said:
As a FYI to every one, for the time being I am refraining from giving my opinion on the controversy concerning cave location's until a time when "the bigger picture in the grand scheme of things" becomes clearer.
So Pretzl,...putting the location deal aside for now (and for this thread), what do you think about the difference in his approach reaching more people?
We've tried a couple of times to get 'mainline' cave orgs to have a different approach to getting the conservation and safety message out, but have been told repeately that this encouraged caving. All we get is more of the same in terms of people way too worried about looking good, and being uberresponsible. Responsible knowledgeable people (org caver or no) are not the threat to caves and karst.
There are many aspects of caves and caving which aren't centered on the L word. Some time back, there was a mass hue and cry about the Ozarks Xtreme gathering. Many of those same people are now the sponsors for the Fall MVOR. Now as a grayhair, I might not care for that sort of thing myself, but I cheer them on-- I know many of the 'respectable' cavers of today were wild and crazy youth, and they ran wild, and then later, they turned that energy into productivity. I 've seen it amongst younger people I've watched 'grow up'.
A religious analogy if I might:
The choir is too busy listening to themselves to look outside the church for people on different paths, IMO.
If we're gonna save the real sinners, we can invite them to the church social until we are blue in the face, or go into some fairly unsavory places and use some pretty unconventional approaches to get them to see the light.
Yet, we're always been told not to recruit from the unwashed, but to wait until they find us. I didn't learn much in church, but I did learn Jesus never saved the Pharisees.
Comments?
