Which Pack to buy?

[rangerdad]

Need some help? I am looking to buy a new pack and wanted to see who might have some good suggestions on which pack to buy? I am looking at the Swaygo Sink pack, Lost Creek Monster TAG Pack and the OR1 Heavy Duty Deluxe pack.

Just too many to chose from.

Can someone let me know of the pros and cons of any of these packs and which one you like the best and why?

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated. Thanks

[L Roebuck]

My preference is the Lost Creek Pack. Do you plan to do mostly dry caving or wet caving?

[rangerdad]

pretzlgirl said:

My preference is the Lost Creek Pack. Do you plan to do mostly dry caving or wet caving?

I do both types. Also both vertical and horizontal!

[madratdan]

Welcome to the discussion board rangerdad. I don't own any of the packs mentioned, but have seen and used the swaygo once and have had other lost creek packs. That said, the swaygo is a dry bag type pack that you wear upside down. The top rolls closed so it can only hold so much. In other words, it's not ment to be carried with the top open and /or anything sticking out of it. It must all fit inside so you can turn it over to wear it. If it's wet or really muddy.......this is the way to go. It also rides really nice on your back so you don't need to take it off as much in tight spots. Very comfortable as long as you pack it right, remembering what you want against your back.

The lost creek ones are nicely built and I like the one I have. The only problem......which can really be a problem in wet caves.......is that it soaks up water fast. I believe they also make them in PVC, but not sure. If so, stay away from the nylon ones and go for a pvc one. They slide better behind you when you drag them through a crawl. They clean up easily and keep everything inside much drier. I use a pack that was made in Poland and is sold locally here by Mike Frazier. I have yet to find an American made pack that I like better or holds up like this thing. The PVC it's made from seems thicker and stiffer than what others are using. PM me if you would like to get in touch with Mike and see whet he has available.

[Brian Roebuck]

Welcome rangerdad!

I really like my Monster TAG pack. I've had for at least fifteen years now and it has worn very well. There are grommets in the bottom and sides to let water out if it gets submerged and so far I haven't had issues with it soaking up or holding lots of water. Ballistic Nylon doesn't really absorb much of anything. I've seen Swaygos used to haul water for cave clean-ups and they did fine for that. They seem to be a specialty pack for wet or compact use. I have also bought and used packs made by B&C Wunderwear that are very similar to Monster Tags and include an external pouch for your rack with a biner loop to hold it fast. I like them for vertical trips since they can hold all the various crap I usually take - I think they are slightly bigger inside than a Monster TAG. B&C packs also come with three straps to tie down the top roll instead of two on the Monster TAG. The straps are nicer too - at least on mine. The ballistic nylon packs also roll up nicely if you don't need to fill them and can be rolled up smaller very easily. We have an older Lost Creek PVC pack that has cracks developing and shows lots of wear even with relatively mild use. I am not impressed with it.

My "bottom line" is that for versatility and good wear I recommend ballistic nylon over rubberized or PVC packs. Go with Lost Creek or B&C wunderwear.

[Sharon Faulkner]

I'm using the On Rope 1 heavyduty cave pack www.onrope1.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=378&parent=70 . I've used it in wet, dry, vertical or horzontal caving for years. It is made out of ballistic nylon, the shoulder straps and clasp are all made to last, and it washes off with the water hose with no problems.

You might want to check out the Vampire packs from Howies Harnesses too. Mark Passerby recently had a recommendation for these: tinyurl.com/28lq7e

[Brian Roebuck]

I checked out the Vampire pack from your link Sharon and wonder if that is the large pack I see some cave photographers use to haul camera gear inside pellican boxes etc plus tripods, flashes, etc with? The Monster Tag and B&C packs are slightly too small for the larger pellican cases (sucah as the one we use for our DSLR cameras). I tried a dry bag we own and while it held the large pellican case and aour other gear it doesn't have shoulder straps (not too good for caving).

Does anyone know if the vampire is large enough for the pellican 1300 box (roughly 10" x 10" x 7")?

[Rick Brinkman]

I have an OR1 Heavy Duty Deluxe Cave Pack

www.onrope1.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=222&parent=12

It is extremely well built. That's one of the problems...it's heavy. The buckles for the shoulder straps are heavy metal buckles. The straps and buckles alone weigh 1 lbs. That means the straps/buckles weigh as much as the pack.

It'll last (me, at least) forever. But I usually want as little weight as I have to.

[rangerdad]

rangerdad said:

Need some help? I am looking to buy a new pack and wanted to see who might have some good suggestions on which pack to buy? I am looking at the Swaygo Sink pack, Lost Creek Monster TAG Pack and the OR1 Heavy Duty Deluxe pack.

Just too many to chose from.

Can someone let me know of the pros and cons of any of these packs and which one you like the best and why?

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated. Thanks

[glow=red,2,300]Thanks to everyone for all the input!! [/glow]I have ordered me a new pack and am pleased so far.

I have purchased the OR1 Expedition/Rescue (1850 ci pack) ( link www.onrope1.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=486&parent=12 ).

I ordered it on (Wed late pm 9-5) and got it (Fri 9-7). Very Fast Shipping from OR1! I decided to order this pack after talking to some more locals because it is a little lager than the OR1 Heavy Duty Deluxe pack 1450 ci . This new pack is 1850 ci and it looks and feels great! Looking forward to using it many years. I believe the large size will come in hand.

I also got to use it on Sat. on the Hsv Grotto Trip to Roaring River. It worked great! Also pictures should be up soon from the trip, if you would like to see them. www.caves.org/grotto/huntsville/
If you would like to see some great picture of this cave and other caves we had Nathan Williams along on this trip and he does some excellent photos. I hope to see them added soon to his site at "REALMS OF REALITY" www.realmsofreality.net/. I will keep you up to date. Thanks again for the help.

[Brian Roebuck]

Good choice. Let us know how it works out for you. Do you know if it will fit one of the "square" 1400 pelican cases? Nathan has a few I am sure. Lynn and I are looking for a good pack to carry her photo gear and with a DSLR she needs the 1400 case plus a few other smaller ones to hold all the stuff.

Thanks

[rangerdad]

drbeaner said:

Good choice. Let us know how it works out for you. Do you know if it will fit one of the "square" 1400 pelican cases? Nathan has a few I am sure. Lynn and I are looking for a good pack to carry her photo gear and with a DSLR she needs the 1400 case plus a few other smaller ones to hold all the stuff.

Thanks

I am not sure but it is a big pack. The Approximate size is 5 x 11 x 25 and 1850 cubic inches of volume. I will try to check with something about the same size. I believe the 1400 pelican cases is Outside Dimensions:13-1/2"L x 11-3/4"W x 6"D.

[Sharon Faulkner]

rickbrinkman said:

I have an OR1 Heavy Duty Deluxe Cave Pack

www.onrope1.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=222&parent=12

It is extremely well built. That's one of the problems...it's heavy. The buckles for the shoulder straps are heavy metal buckles. The straps and buckles alone weigh 1 lbs. That means the straps/buckles weigh as much as the pack.

It'll last (me, at least) forever. But I usually want as little weight as I have to.

Yes Rick, I will have to agree that the shoulder straps are heavy, which is not a plus when trying to go as light as possible on a trip. The straps seem to be constructed to last quite some time and I'd imagine they will. Both the straps and my pack have held up amazingly well over time thus far.

[Cave Rat]

I have the OR1 LW Pack and after a few caving trips, it had holes rip into it. The material does not fair well during hard caving.

I plan to upgrade. I am thinking about ordering a Lost Creek TAG Pack myself.

[rangerdad]

caverat said:

I have the OR1 LW Pack and after a few caving trips, it had holes rip into it. The material does not fair well during hard caving.

I plan to upgrade. I am thinking about ordering a myself.

The OR1 Light Weight pack is Made with Cordura. This material helps makes the pack also lighter. The OR1 LW pack weights 1.3 lbs, while the same size OR1 Heavy Duty Cave Pack weights 2.1 lbs.
The Heavy Duty, Heavy Duty Deluxe and the Expedition/Rescue OR1 packs are made with ballistic nylon which I believe is tougher material and is the same material that the Lost Creek packs are made from.
The LC Monster TAG pack is about the same size as the OR1 Expedition/Rescue Pack. The OR1 Expedition/Rescue Pack has a 10 x 32 closed-cell foam pad (1/4 thick) in an interior pocket that the LC Monster TAG pack does not have.

Lost Creek does make the Gorilla Pack. It measures 25” high by 12” wide by 6.5” thick. It has the same features as the Monster TAG but is wider and thicker and has an additional inside pocket at the back to accommodate a foam pad (not included). The Gorilla Pack closes with three Fastex buckles. Comes with two adjustable pack straps. Padded straps are optional. www.karstsports.com/loscreekgorc.html It runs for $67.35 at karstsports.com.

The OR1 Expedition/Rescue pack runs for $75www.onrope1.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=486&parent=70

Both companies makes packs that should last for a long time.

I also like the over-sized map and rack pocket of the OR1 Expedition/Rescue packs.

Good luck on your new pack purchase. Hope this helps and let us know which one you decide to get and how you like it.

[rangerdad]

rangerdad said:

drbeaner said:

Good choice. Let us know how it works out for you. Do you know if it will fit one of the "square" 1400 pelican cases? Nathan has a few I am sure. Lynn and I are looking for a good pack to carry her photo gear and with a DSLR she needs the 1400 case plus a few other smaller ones to hold all the stuff.

Thanks

I am not sure but it is a big pack. The Approximate size is 5 x 11 x 25 and 1850 cubic inches of volume. I will try to check with something about the same size. I believe the 1400 pelican cases is Outside Dimensions:13-1/2"L x 11-3/4"W x 6"D.

After checking out the OR1 Expedition/Rescue pack sizes as stated on the OR1 web site (Approximate size is 5 x 11 x 25 and 1850 cubic inches of volume). Something did not add up?

I did contact OR1 today to ask the ? on the sizing. They did say that this was just the approximate size. The packs are hand made and each one can be just a little different. They did say that the size stated was given from the people in the back who make & design the packs and the volume stated only should be for the inside of the pack and did not include the rack pocket or the map pocket which is extra.
They did have a 1200 pelican case on hand (10.62" x 9.68" x 4.87" outside size) and they said it would fit with no problem with extra room. I have also found out from pelican.com that the 1400 pelican case is (13.37" x 11.62" x 6.00" outside size). This is the biggest pack that OR1 makes.

So I measured my pack and the sizing as stated was close but was hard to get the exact size. So I did not have a 1400 pelican case handy but I did have something close to that size (13" L x11" W x 5"D) and it went in with some extra room also. I even left the pad in the back. The depth may be the only ? since it is over 13" wide and 6" deep. The pack is flexible to odd shapes.
Hope this helps, I will try to check to see if I can come up with the 1400 pelican case to try. Some local shops have some so maybe I can stop by to try one out and the next couple of days.

You may want to check out the Lost Creek Gorilla Pack it may be just a little bigger than the OR1 Expedition/Rescue pack . See the post above this one for details.

[Brian Roebuck]

Thanks for the info rangerdad!

I will have to look into this opack or a gorrilla next cave event so that we can haul all our photo gear around with ease from now on. Having cases dangling is a pain! It sounds like your OR1 is big enough to do the job though. It is always tough to know for sure until you have the pack and case in hand and can do the fitting in person. Let us know what you find out if you get a chance to check. I'll certainly appreciate it!

Dr B

[Chad Dubuisson]

Hey Tony,

I’ve got a couple of suggestions about packs for you. I’d imagine you’ve probably purchased a pack by now, but what the hey.

There are plenty of options for packs and it certainly boils down to your needs, so what kind of caver are you? For example, if you are a rigger, you’ll need room for all your personal gear, vertical gear, probably some rope, plus rigging gear.

If you are a porter, then you are just taking your personal stuff, vertical gear and rope or group gear. Do you take photo gear, etc.

Personally, I find that I need a very big pack, as I carry a lot of gear. I carry a small, 3.5 darren drum packed with my survival gear into any cave where there is water or difficult access to the surface. I also have lots of rigging gear, rope, and other stuff to take, so I use a pretty big pack, on the 40L+ size.

All of the brands out there are great to get. I know Scott and he makes great packs, (Swaygo). They are very durable and waterproof, but not very big. I would recommend their Sink Pack, the big one, as a caver’s first pack. It’s just big enough to put the necessities in.

I used to work at On Rope 1 as his production manager, so I can tell you that Bruce Smith puts more thought into his gear then most people know. His packs are very similar to Anmar’s Lost Creek Packs. I think Bruce would qualify his differences in design as the following:
1. His packs only consist of 3 pieces, a single piece of fabric down the middle joined by two side panels. Lost Creek packs have more stitching and seams, and therefore, in Bruce’s opinion, more stitching that can come loose and allow holes to develop. Also, on the heavy duty and expedition packs, he uses an extra layer of sewn ballistic fabric around the inside of the bottom of the pack, where the first holes are likely to develop. I don’t know if Lost Creek packs sew in an extra reinforcement layer or not, perhaps someone else can comment on that.
2. The straps which hold the roll down closure down during travel emanate from the side seams of the pack about mid way up the pack, at a 45 degree angle. Lost Creek Packs differ by having their straps emanate from the base seam of the pack.
3. OR1 packs, some of them, have the option of an added map pocket on the front of the pack. Handy for some things.
4. Lastly, some of the bigger OR1 packs have the option to add or already have a rack sleeve on the outside of the pack. If you have a full size rack in cave, this is a very handy function.
Those differences aside, OR1’s biggest pack is still too small for me. Lost Creek makes larger packs, such as the TAG and the Gorilla packs. These packs can carry LOTS of gear.

Lastly, you might look into canyoneering packs. They are designed to let water in and out easily, a common occurrence underground.
Metolius makes an awesome pack that’s made of Duathane, a polyurethane pack fabric that is about 4x more durable then PVC or ballistic nylon. It’s expensive though, about $140. In my opinion, worth it, because that pack will last as long as 3-5 regular cave packs, which, at $50-$90 a pop, adds up to way more then $140.

I for one don’t believe in the idea of a waterproof cave pack. It may be dry inside when you start out, but by the time you’ve put dirty, wet, muddy gear in there, it’s no longer “waterproof” as water & muck is now inside the pack and everywhere, just like it would be in a normal cave pack. This is just normal for regular caving. I fully expect almost everything in my cave pack to be wet and covered in mud at some point. If I really need to keep it dry, I put it in a Darren Drum (keg) or an Otterbox. Dry bags, after owning about 20 of them, always develop a leak eventually.

Just my suggestions. Hope it helps someone.