Mini-mag LED bulb replacement

[Brian Roebuck]

For all of you with a handful of old mini-mags laying around that just don't cut it anymore just zip over to your local WallyWorld etc and pick up one of the $5 LED bulb replacement units. The include three super-bright LEDs in a plastic housing that plugs into the two pin recepticle in place of the tiny bulbs in regular mini-mags. You swap out the bulb, the reflector, and maybe the lens if yours is really bad to create a really usable back-up / survey light source. It is much brighter than the original with a broader light pattern, will last much longer on batteries (I imagine about ten times longer) emmitting very usable light even with fairly weak batteries. I strap one to the side of my helmet in some bungie loops and it makes a dandy backup as well as an easy to reach survey light source. I wish they designed them like this from day one! You also don't have to worry about bulbs burning out anymore!

I have converted two of our mini-mags and plan on doing the rest soon. The new LED mini-mags cost about $20 though and I doubt they are any better (they look longer to me). Anyone have any opinion on them yet?

Do yourself a favor and convert your old mini-mag soon!

[Brian Roebuck]

Oh yes I forgot to mention they make LED replacement bulbs for bigger Mag Lights as well!

[Azurerana]

I basically don't like LED light. I've complained about this in other places, but white/blue LEDs seem to combine the worst aspects of fluorescent and incandescent light in one neat package-- the harsher light actually causes my eyes to twitch, and I could very easily kick people who use (mostly Petzl) LEDs in the shins, because, being shorter, the tilt on the light shines right into my eyes. With the former incandescent Petzls, like the Mega, you can easily tilt the light away from others if you are speaking--not so with the permanently fixed tilt of the Tikka, Zipka, Tikkina, etc.

You also have to be conscious of what amperage draw the larger LEDs are--many of them do not actually buy you the hundreds of battery hours which they claim. For example: we got a 72 LED array at a caving auction, which actually consumes batteries faster than an incandescent of similar lumen output.

I'd say in 20 years I've used no more than 6 Mini-mag light lamps-- usually I have to throw away the light itself because the batteries have corroded inside the tube before the lightbulb needs changinge (I've ditched two of my 4 Minimags due to this corrosion, and now, never store batteries inside the flashlight, even from trip to trip, which is somewhat of a pain. )

Some people like LED light for the 'even' light it casts-- I find the bland illumination makes it harder to judge distance by using the shadows cast, and miss the spot function. LEDs are fine for lights which are supposed to be seen (like taillights) but not so great for lights to see by, IMO.

[Brian Roebuck]

Azureana,
I do agree that the wide diffuse light from some LED arrays is harsh and less useful in some situations. However for me the mini-mag is mostly a crawlway backup light or used while I survey caves. In this role they tend to get beat up a lot and the incandecent bulbs don't hold up well. Also if the battery voltage gets below about 1.3 volts they get really dull. Using the three LED array you can run with usable light output down to less than 1.2 volts or so and that really extends the useful output for these lights. The voltage regulators employed in some of the newer LED lights really make the difference in how efficient they are. Older multi-LED arrays were horrible compared to the newer stuff out there. They have come a long way at being great caving lights in the past few years. Are they perfect? Heck no! But they have there uses and for many of us LED headlamps are our main light sources. I still like carbide but I have to admit the lightweight LED units are hard to beat for overall durability, efficiency, and weight. If I had my ultimate light it would combine some LEDs for peripheral vision (similar to carbide), a spot beam with good size reflector, rechargable batteries (in a light weight easily changed out pack), and low weight. It would have to be waterproof and bullet proof too. The Sten light comes close but cost is a factor there.

Alas I've wandered way off topic..

The mini-mag LED upgrade is a great option for some of us but not everyone. Check it out if your needs are similar to mine. You won't be dissapointed.

[Tony Anders]

I got my replacement for the mini mag several months ago, I love it. talking about a battery saver.
But it would be best for a backup, since it doesn't shine way far off.

I just wish they mad a good LED that would project good through the cave. If they do, can you let me know which is a good light.

My brother found one that runs on D size batteries that does project pretty good in a cave. Just sort of heavy.

Has anyone used the LED mag lights down under to see how they shine?

[Brian Roebuck]

Tony,

Yes the mini-mag is a decent back-up only but it could get you out alive in a pinch. The big Mag lights are probably better but are not mountable on a helmet. You need to keep those hands free for moving safely through the cave!

You can search this very forum topic for cave light reviews etc - here's a link from some months ago: nssmembersforum.proboards28.com/index.cgi?board=vendors&action=display&thread=1138284773

You might also be interested in the Princetontec Apex LED headlamps as well. Both seem to be good caving lights and mount on helmets nicely.

[Tony Anders]

Yea, your right about keeping the hands free. Has anyone used a strap for holding a light on the back of the hand, so you can still use the hands, but have the option of shining a little farther than some headlamps shine.

While we are on the subject of back up lights, I have a Black diamond lunar headlamp, I have a Black diamond(can't recall the name) led headlamp as well, that I carry in the pack for a backup headlamp.
I normally carry two other lights, like a mini mag and a pelican light I used have on my fire helmet which is water proof up to like 30 feet. I think I may even have a little single LED light that uses 3 aaa batteries. I guess what I am wondering is , have I went over kill on the backup lights?

[Azurerana]

You can never have too many lights. My husband was on a trip where 4 cavers had 15 lights between them, and they all got out of the cave on his handheld flashlight.

Cave divers routinely use lights strapped to their hands, not their heads, because their hands are on their scooters, and the lights act like headlights. Of course, they are using huge lights with canister batteries-- due to neutral bouyancy compensation the weight doesn't matter like it does in dry caving.

As far as the big D-cell maglights-- I have taken them caving on bioinventory trips, because headlights are not always suitable for seeing little bitty critters up close, and mini mags don't cast enough light. You have to be careful with them, as they tend to get sopped with mud--I brought one out of a cave once, and people thought I had found a big muddy bone. They don't work well as primary light, but if you've got something to put them in when you are moving-- like a foldable umbrella sleeve, or a backpack-- they can be invaluable for looking under ledges, along the floor and into nooks and crannies.

[Tony Anders]

Have you checked the difference can between the regular Mag light and the LED mag lite,(full size grant you) I was just curious if the single LED Mag lite projects pretty far or not.

[Azurerana]

Nope...see my post above about not liking LED light in general.
I'm gonna be an incandescent troglodyte as long as I can!

[Tony Anders]

My bad, I thought there was a different type LED bulb that might be better then the other.

I reread it now, I guess we have to sacrifice battery life for being able to really see well in the cave. I have carried my Survivor firefighting light inside some caves. Now there is a light that will really shine to the ends of endless caverns. How ever there again, you are limited to about 2hrs of burn time per battery.
www.streamlightflashlights.us/cataspx12.html

[Sharon Faulkner]

I tried to find the $5 LED bulb replacement units for my mini mag yesterday at Walmart and could only find the $18 plus change replacement kit for the larger mag light. I'll check again later. I wear a mini mag bungied on the side of my helmet too. While they are not the perfect caving light, you can most definitely get out of the cave on the light provided by one if you have to.

I like my LED lights very much, and don't want to use carbide, but I love caving with other cavers who are using carbide. A mixture of carbide lamps and LED headlamps on a cave trip produces a near perfect amount of light for me.

[Brian Roebuck]

Sharon,
If you are coming to the SERA WBM I'll pick one up for you if you like and you can get it there. They are a really good upgrade IMHO.

As far as light sources go I would like to try cane torch bundles someday just for the grins. Apparently they worked pretty durn good for native Americans in the good ole days! ;D

[Sharon Faulkner]

Sounds like a good deal, I'll be there. Thanks Brian!

Cane torches... well that's something you wouldn't see everyday. ;D I've always thought Native Americans probably had a heck of a hard time getting down to the Morgue in Fern Cave using those things.

[Brian Roebuck]

I'll pick up one this week. I hope they aren't out of them here too! (profuse appologies to Azurerana for frequenting WallyWorld )

I read somewhere (probably a link Lynn gave me of course) cavers and archaeologists recently used cane torches in or near Mammoth cave to recreate the prehistoric travels of native peoples in the cave. Apparently they travelled miles into the system and had caches of cane torches etc throughout the system. It is absolutely amazing how far they would go with nothing but simple lighhting. At least the travelled in pairs to make it easier to re-light each other in a pinch! Many of them were also barefoot! These days I have trouble crossing gravel driveways let alone cave passages barefoot! Tough people they were...

[chac]

Sort of off-topic, but Brian started this

As a youngster (and quite young at that) our family would visit Mammoth most every year for one or two of the tourist trips. Of course the electric lighting would be turned off to demonstrate how "dark is dark". Well that was pretty cool, especially when a ranger would light a firebrand and toss it up into an alcove near the ceiling. The ranger must have been a baseball player as they _never_ missed the high alcove.

The story was that this was how early explorers in Mammoth explored caves - by torch light. Today in the dry caves of Quintana Roo, I do see bits of charred matter that looks to be remnants of old torches used by the Maya. They didn't use cane, but the leaves of a type of plant that looks like a miniature palm. The bound leaves will burn brightly, and then smolder. To get a flash of light, one waives the torch in the air briskly back and forth to produce a flame (and brighter light). I would think cane torches were used in the same manner.

A few old torches have been found in Yucatan (State) caves, but I've never found one in Quintana Roo. I'm still looking.

[Brian Roebuck]

Did they stoke the torches on walls and ceilings to get them burning brighter? We see cane stoke marks where you can still see the circular pattern of each cane piece and get an idea of how big the bundles were by the pattern of irregular stokes left behind. Usually they are visible under ledges where you need to stoop or crawl to proceed. I guess they wanted to be sure they had enough light when they came through tight spots etc. Interesting how various peoples used different light sources based on local materials. The cave men that painted Lascaux used rock bowls filled with animal fats and a crude wick to paint the awesome figures there.

And we use mini-mags heh....

NOTE: Ok Lets discuss prehistoric or unusual lighting in the Archaeology section. Lynn created a new topic just for us to discuss this further. We'll leave mini-mag stuff right here though. Thanks!

[Azurerana]

Candles. People used flashlights on the way into Cathedral Cave for the second half of my wedding. Then we passed out candles, put cave water in the carbides, struck the carbides for Gene and me, lit everyone's candles and came out of the cave on candlelight. (With a few wags singing the March of the Winged Monkeys.)

We've threatened to cave by using wintergreen mints, but never got more than a few hundred feet that way.

[NZcaver]

drbeaner said:

I have converted two of our mini-mags and plan on doing the rest soon. The new LED mini-mags cost about $20 though and I doubt they are any better (they look longer to me). Anyone have any opinion on them yet?

Do yourself a favor and convert your old mini-mag soon!

News flash - the 3-LED modules you refer to don't hold a candle (pardon the pun) to the new Mini MagLEDs. I've used a Nite-Ize 3-LED module for several years and it's certainly more efficient than the old incandescent bulb - if you don't mind the horrible uneven beam pattern.
But the new MagLED - that's a whole different ball game!

There's a review on the 2AA version here - www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/maglite_minimagled.htm and one on the Nite-Ize module I think you're talking about here - www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/niteize_mag3led.htm

Short version - the original 2AA Mini Maglite with incandescent bulb takes only 30 minutes to reach half-brightness, and gets progressively dimmer for another 5 hours before it dies completely. The module takes 11 hours to reach half-brightness, and dies in about another 3 hours. With new batteries, both the incandescent and 3-LED version are surprisingly similar in overall light output. Not so the new Mini MagLED. It takes 3.5 hours to reach half-brightness (4.5 if using rechargeable NiMH batteries), and dies soon after. However, it's also FIVE TIMES brighter than the other two!

So if the old 3-LED module is bright enough for you - it's probably a good choice to stick with. Especially if you just want a handheld flashlight for smaller passages, surveying (without spotting), etc. But if you want BRIGHT, try a Mini MagLED. Things to note about them (both the 2AA and 3AA versions) - none of their parts are interchangeable with the old incandescent Mini MagLites, unlike the LED upgrades for C and D cell Maglites. And although the Mini MagLEDs use blazing 3 watt LEDs, they are intentionally under-powered at just a little over 1 watt. So they're not nearly as bright as the high beam on the Princeton Tec Apex headlamp, but with the deep reflector they are still throw out at least as much light as most other 1 watt LEDs.

I've taken mine caving in a large lava tube, and it worked great for spotting and general handheld use. Personally I usually carry another headlamp (not a Maglite) in my pack as my third source of light - but if you like to carry a small, bright flashlight in caves and don't mind the 3.5 hour burn time, this is probably the one for you. Providing you can tolerate that nasty bright, clean, white light that LEDs emit, of course. ;D Yes, I know. LED lighting can be hard to get used to. I felt the same way about the glare and the lack of depth perception, etc when they first came out. But slowly I got used to LEDs, and now there's no going back. Incidentally, if you use a LED headlamp with a pair (or groups) of LEDs spaced about the same width apart as your eyes, you get your depth perception back. The low beam on the Apex is a perfect example of this.

You'll find further info on these if you search the other caving forum(s), or the candlepower forum where all the light geeks hang out (though not me, surprisingly).

[Brian Roebuck]

Great Post NZ!

You added a ton of good info to our discussion. Of course you realize that I now have to own one of those new super bright Minis just to keep up with all the other cool cavers who have one! And it is all your fault! ;D

Thanks so much for your excellent reply!

[Sharon Faulkner]

Good info NZcaver. According to the link it is $21.60, which makes it affordable. Probably a better investment than upgrading my current several year old mini. Thanks for the scoop!

Didn't you hang around one of the vendors at Convention last year and promote a headlamp? Are you getting a commission for every light you help sell? ;D ;D

[NZcaver]

drbeaner said:

Great Post NZ!

You added a ton of good info to our discussion. Of course you realize that I now have to own one of those new super bright Minis just to keep up with all the other cool cavers who have one! And it is all your fault! ;D

Thanks so much for your excellent reply!

You are very welcome, Dr B.

And the *best* thing about buying something like this from Wal Mart to try out, is their "no questions" return policy if you don't like it. ;D