How to start an Official Grotto

[Brian Roebuck]

Since I have gotten a few recent inquiries about creating a new grotto I thought I would post a few links etc to start the thread. Ask us about specifics and maybe some of us here can help!

www.caves.org/info/member.shtml (how to join)

www.caves.org/nss-business/bog/app-d.html (internal org policies)

The phone number and address of the National Speleological Society are located on the main page at www.caves.org as well. You can email or call to get additional information.

Madrat has just gone through forming a grotto and just may be very helpful if you ask him nicely!

[itabot]

Here's another link: www.caves.org/committee/i-o/NewIO.htm

This link makes the process easy! Most of your information can be submitted via e-mail except for the applications, which makes the process go a lot faster.

[Brian Roebuck]

Thanks for the great link itabot!

Tony this should help you out!

[Tony Anders]

Thanks Dr B.

I haven't had a great deal of interest in the local grotto here, I hope it goes well for us tonight.

My brothers and I was wondering on getting the local grotto recognized as a part of the NSS you have to have 5 NSS members, as you told me before.

Can those members be family members as well.

Say if my brothers and I join that would make three then our kids would be 4 more that would be the 5, would that count? We wanted to check with someone to see.

Thanks

[L Roebuck]

It is always good to visit the local grotto's. You can learn a lot from fellow cavers! And heck some of the cavers in the local grotto may even want to join the new grotto after it becomes an official I/O. Go and have fun!

Yes, it says a grotto must be maintained by 5 NSS members. The NSS doesn't discriminate against family so NSS members that can include family members, sons, daughters, cousins, aunts, uncles, Mom, Dad, etc, etc.

In the past I even recall a four legged NSS member who I believe even helped re-form a grotto and another four legged NSS member that was vertically inclined. But sadly both these NSS member's have passed away. RIP...

[Tony Anders]

Ha Ha Ha, that is great, I am sure my little ones will get a big thrill out of being a member.
Next question, not that I am trying to be tight, OK maybe I am, anyway, what is the difference between the limited and regular membership for the NSS. Besides not getting the News and Journal.

[L Roebuck]

I maybe wrong but I believe the only difference is the Limited membership is more affordable and with Limited membership you don't receive the NSS News and Journal. So one of you may want to sign up for a Regular member so you get all privileges of membership and the NSS News and Journal of Cave and Karst Studies.

The NSS News alone is worth the membership dues.

[madratdan]

Hi Tony,
I am a limited member. I paid the fee for a three year membership. I did so to quit receiving the Journal of Cave and Karst studies. I don't read it and I hate throwing something as thick as that in the trash. You can then get a subscription for the NSS News if you want to receive that magazine. In fact, you can get the NSS News by subscription only and not even be an NSS member or pay dues to get it. I still receive my voting ballot and they still send me junk mail from time to time. I think you can even be a BOG member if you want to run, as a limited member.

[Tony Anders]

Thanks Madratran

What does the journal have in it. My brother has sent his membership in and will probably be getting the journal.

Do they publish cave reports maps of caves in it?

[Azurerana]

Lynn is right. There isn't much point (at least in the beginning) to joining the NSS but then not getting the publications. The News has cool caving articles, cave news synopses (some edited by our very own Sharon Faulkner) announcements of regional gatherings, the annual convention (In Indiana, not far from you this year, and you get a discount as a member) fantastic high quality photos, cave related ads, some how-to articles-- signing up for the NSS without the News is like paying for a college class and not attending just so you can have a student ID.

OTOH, you don't want to drown in paper-- only the adult needs to have a full membership. There is also a family membership which is a regular membership with only one set of publications. That's me...we don't need to kill trees when two people can share the pubs. Cave and Karst Studies, unfortunately for the general membership is written in science-speak-- many of the discoveries in speleology are fascinating, but the powers who are insist that articles be written in standard journal style, (like the AAAS mag Science) which excludes comprehension by 90% of the members of the NSS without advanced science degrees. Heck, I've got a science degree, and I can't read any of the articles except those in geology. But the NEWS is definitely worth it.

As an aside--I wonder if the Limited Membership was instituted when they found out we've got four-legged members, who, for the most part, are illiterate? Here, Rambo...Here boy! *|:-)

[madratdan]

Tony,
I think you and your brother should make up your own mind about the Journal of Cave and Karst Studies. You'll see what I mean when you try and read it. It does contain maps and sometimes.....cave locations and maps with entrances marked on them. I cut them out and keep them in a scrap book. I usually thumb through my girlfriends before she tosses hers, so I'm still collecting and all. It does have some articles in it once in awhile that even I can comprehend with my limited school background.

The NSS News on the other hand is a great publication and resource for all cavers. A lot of the main articles feature caves in other countries, but the pictures alone are worth the price of a subscription. Our own grotto sponsers a Mexico expedition or two each year, so I find the international stuff very interesting, even knowing I'll never visit any of the caves myself.

I really like Sharons column "In The Media" and also Bern Szukalski"s column "Underground Update". Both are written so you don't have to start at the beginning of the column to understand it or know what's going on. Each paragraph is a new subject, so you can open up a page and start reading.

Like most guys, I do a lot of magazine reading while sitting on the toilet. Sometimes it takes a very short time to do my business, but I still like to get in a second or two of reading while I'm sitting there, if you know what I mean. The NSS News is the perfect publication for me. ;D

Berns column is little exerpts from all the different grotto publications and news letters from all over the NSS. It has lots of trip reports and such, but no maps or locations.

As a grotto you are encouraged to write a news letter of some sorts. You also send in copies of each publication to the NSS for the library and others to read and have reference to. Here in Colorado, the grotto's got together and use a common publication called "Rocky Mountain Caving". We have a board of directors and the grottos combine their info into a quarterly publication. Rick Rheinhart has been the editor since it started and does a super job of putting it all together. A top notch publication that you can also subscribe to.

[Azurerana]

Part of the reason for the Limited Membership is because the NSS has this rule that in order to be an officer of an NSS grotto (an officer, not a member) you have to be an NSS member. There were plenty of people in places like Missouri who are quite active in their local grotto, and wanted to run for office, but have some grudge against the NSS (or, they can't afford the $36 national fee on top of whatever their local grotto dues are), and don't read much of anything so they didn't want the magazine but wanted to be a local officer. Hence the Limited membership. At one point, the NSS BOG proposed that Limited members couldn't hold office, but that idea was nixed quite loudly. Well-to-do members of the NSS don't like the Limited membership, but without the Limited membership, there are many cavers in cave regions (generally cavers in cave regions do so because it is cheap outdoor recreation) who wouldn't be members.

[L Roebuck]

madratdan said:

Like most guys, I do a lot of magazine reading while sitting on the toilet. Sometimes it takes a very short time to do my business, but I still like to get in a second or two of reading while I'm sitting there, if you know what I mean. The NSS News is the perfect publication for me. ;D

Well that wasn't a very pleasant visual Dan! And a bit more info than we needed to know. ;D ;D
So would you call that the " MAN CAVE "?

[Brian Roebuck]

Hmmm after Dan's post I now have an idea for all the extra copies of the NSS News we have around here. Where's that old magazine rack?

Tony it sounds like you will likely have enough membership to form a grotto. You can get copies of other grotto's constitution and bylaws from their websites to use as a basis for your own if you like. Also you should be sure you have enough NSS members in your group to hold all the offices. You might want to combine secretary and treasurer to keep the number of officers low as well. Make sure you leave yourselves plenty of room in your rules to change things as your grotto grows and is influenced by new members etc. I'm pretty sure the NSS has to OK your application for becoming a grotto as well as be sure any nearby grottos don't have any problems with the idea.

All of us here on U.S. Cavers Forum wish you luck and lots of fun starting a new grotto in the NSS.

[Azurerana]

If you can possibly do so, Tony, (despite what Dr. Beaner says) DO NOT combine secretary and treasurer. A much more logical organization would be to (at the beginning, anyway) combine treasurer and membership officers. The treasurer manages the money, and it's not that hard for the treasurer to keep track of who paid, along with their contact info (name, address, phone, email) in a simple spreadsheet.

The secretary has to take meeting minutes, write up the minutes, and deal with other correspondence every month. Often the secretary is the official contact person for the grotto.

Usually the president and the treasurer are the two people on the bank account.

I have just got over being Secretary-Treasurer for 3 years for a non-caving organization. Membership was separate. I had to do all the renewals, receive all the checks, update the files---but I wasn't the membership person, only the treasurer. In short, I did all the membership work, and someone else got all credit.

You will find, as your grotto grows, that people who are good with words are not necessarily good with numbers. And vice versa. Right now, my other org has a Sec-Treasurer who is a sports editor for a newspaper--he's aces with words, but his wife keeps their family checkbook, and the organization has had problems because he's falling down on the financial side. He refused to do the membership mailing, for example, or to take the incoming checks. It is not pretty. I could not succeed myself as Sec-Treas (a good idea, btw) but I am by default being the membership officer right now, because our renewals come due in January, and the person who should be doing it--isn't.

Regardless of how you resolve this for you, if you need a simple treasurer's spreadsheet template done in Microsoft Excel for your treasurer email me and I will send you a copy. I took the
treasurer's spreadsheet for Meramec Valley Grotto put together by my brother, and a lady bookkeeper and very slightly adapted it for this other organization-- it can easily be put back to caver uses because the bookkeeping,income and expense categories for the two are virtually the same.