Opinions on RSS-feed for US Cavers Forum

I just checked into this further - Without US Cavers solicitation or permission Wayne Harrison not only created an RSS Feed on FeedYes for US Cavers Forum but he apparently already has the RSS Feed available online.

Tis, tis, tis.....That's just wrong Wayne!
And I for one am quite taken back that you took these kind of liberties and did not go through proper channels and contact the US Cavers Forum Administrators first.

Lynn,

It's always hard to explain when someone doesn't understand the technology you're trying to explain. The RSS "feed" that is under discussion here was actually a single XML page, rendered by feedyes.com of the original US Cavers Forum index page (nssmembersforum.proboards28.com). It has since been deleted, since Dan explalined to the NSS Board of Governors that it is not wanted.

As I said in an email reply to Dan and the BOG, anyone with a computer and Internet access can produce an RSS page like that for their own use. There is no permission issue, as using the XML that lists headlines is the same as accessing the index page. If you don't require people to get permission before they access your index (main) page, and it isn't a private site, then there is no need for permission to access your index page. You seem to think I should have asked permission to do this, but I would ask you who's permission at NSS did anyone here ask when they created a URL called the nssmembersforum?

The URL of the XML that I gave zenas privately was not posted anywhere in any public forum and was intended as a demonstration page only for personal use to show how your forum might be able to produce a useable RSS feed for the World Caving Network system. I also wasn't even sure it could even render a usable XML page. Without the exact URL of the XML page, and unless someone is subscribed to it, there is no "feed" to anybody or anywhere. It scans a page only when the URL is accessed. I had no idea your forum would be the first to refuse zenas' invitation to join the WCN and must say I was quite surprised by the negative reaction.

It seems to that many some here are under the mistaken impression that I did this for myself -- when in fact it was done as a courtesy to help the US Cavers Forum have the opportunity to join other national and worldwide caving forums on WCN. What possible motive could I have for trying to get your forum more publicity? To help spread information in the online caving community, which is what I thought the US Cavers Forum was all about. That's why I suggested your forum, among other caving Web sites, to zenas when he asked me for recommendations. I did not zeroe in exclusively on this forum. I'm trying to help zenas in his remarkble quest to unite the online caving community worldwide. Already, as result of joining WCN, I've seen the petzl ascender problem picked up by other participating forums (and of course someone on our forum picked it up on an Italian caving forum). It's a remarkable thing to watch: caving information shared worldwide.

Thank you once again for giving me the opportunity to give my side of this and I hope I won't be accused again of spamming your forum just because I mentioned the NSS Forum in this post. I do get a little tired of the NSS-slams: he-did-this, she-did-that "he's cyber-stalking!" mentality over here, but then everyone is free to channel their energies into whatever they see fit. Speaking as a longtime caver, I'd like to read more posts about caves and caving and less about me.

Wayne Harrison
[Deleted by Moderators]

Wayne, specify the NSS-slams you are referring to if you don't mind. If you are referring to slams against yourself, you are not the NSS. If you are referring to opinions on individuals associated with the NSS, there is no he or she that is the NSS. The NSS is an entity that goes beyond any single person involved with the Society.

The users I know personally on this forum completely support the goals, purpose, and mission statement of the National Speleological Society.


If you'd like to read more posts about caves and caving and less about you, you should consider posting more about caving and less about how you hang your toilet paper, or how your family is dealing with death, or even which new smiley you've created.

Duh!

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Wayne,

No need to talk down to Lynn or the rest of us suggesting we are totally ignorant of internet technology. I think we all understand enough about the technology behind RSS feeds. We also understand that there is no permission required to access a public webpage in RSS format. What is annoying to me (and likely our admins) is the lack of communication to US Cavers Forum members about your decision on adding this technology without prior mention to us. Regardless of who did what to whom first - you really should know to be more courteous.

I agree Zenas' site is a great one and deserves lots of praise. Perhaps the admins of this site will one day decide to add US Cavers Forum to WCN. Perhaps not. It is not however up to anyone but the US Cavers Admins and moderators to best decide how to publicize their site.

I don't think anyone here dislikes the National Speleological Society. I support them wholeheartedly. Many of us here do have issues at times with the actions of various persons in control of some portions/functions of the society. It is this forum that allows us the freedom to speak on those issues (keeping things civil) without fear that our posts will be modded down or deleted. On U.S. Cavers Forum I have no fear that our forum will ever get too controversial or embarrassing to anyone here and mysteriously dissappear into cyberspace vacuum with no backup - but something like that would never happen eh?)

In any event Wayne as a member of this forum you are entitled to speak your mind and are encouraged to do so regardless of how I feel about your intentions. Thanks for taking the time to post.

Dr. Beaner,

Thank you so much for your reply to me. It was refreshing, to say the least. I am sorry I talked down to your wife and really didn't mean to. I've just been hammered with accusations and questions about RSS feeds and code and about permissions needed to make it (when actually all I did was copy and paste the nssmembersforum URL into a box on a public website and it produced the code automatically) that I thought perhaps some explanation of it was necessary. Some of the questions seemed to have been formed without knoweldge of how it works and what it does.

Lynn, the attempt to help zenas get the US Cavers Forum added to the WCN network was an olive branch on my part. I thought it might show you I don't have a problem with USC and am willing to put aside our differences and work toward better informing the caving community online. zenas had told me he contacted someone here earlier about joining but they said the free website interface didn't support RSS feeds. I thought my doing this might make some here stop and consider, "Wow. He'd go to the trouble of doing that for us? He must not be as bad as I thought."

Beyond the rhetoric, I am reminded of the distrust that permiates the world between peoples: the Jews and and Palestinians and the Christians and the Muslims. I think we can all agree that we're all cavers, right? Most of us belong to the same caving organization: the NSS (not the National Space Society). If cavers who belong to the same organization can't even get along in a civil manner, what does that say about our hopes for peace in the rest of the world?

I've got some free time so I'll pick up the slack Lynn. ;D

Wayne, the bottom line is that you are not associated with the Administration team from U.S. Cavers Forum, you are not authorized to perform any functions regarding U.S. Cavers Forum, nor did you seek permission from the Administrators prior to creating this feed. The RSS-Feed has now been disabled, but this is not the first instance of what is becoming a borderline pattern of stalking and harassing behavior.

Prior to this incident, you sent false information regarding a U.S. Cavers Forum Administrator to the NSS OVP, who subsequently published the false information online in the OVP Report for the 2006 Spring Board of Governors Meeting.

While this is a relatively minor situation in the overall scheme of the Society, the aforementioned behavior is unproductive and does nothing but create ill will between NSS members. So, you're basically being asked to cease and desist with similar actions in the future.

You always have excuses for your actions, after the fact. Personally, it would be something of an olive branch to me if you simply reserved your actions for/toward/against this forum and/or me for some other person or some other forum more deserving of your attention.


It appears as if Zenas may have been manipulated into a situation where perhaps he was not given all the facts regarding past issues. However, like you, he is a member of this forum and has the ability to speak for himself if he chooses to.

You both are welcome to join in the discussions that take place on this forum. You both visit here and if you've found the discussions taking place interesting enough to want to place them on the WCN alerter, that by coincidence happens to be placed at the top of the NSS DB, then you should be interested in actually participating in the discussions where they are taking place I would think. If you don't wish to participate that's okay too.

Sharon, now who's publishing false information? If you have a complaint about the report, please send it to the NSS. If you want to run for OVP and replace me if you are elected, that's the way it is. I'm not worried about it thought, despite what you think. Who knows, I'm trying to decide whether to run for BOG, after some inquiries. I'm still mulling it over.

I stand by the information sent to the OVP. None of it was false and ,as best I could determine, factual. Even presented with evidence (two separate snapshots of this site taken four months apart and archived on the Internet) you continue to deny what they show ("Huntsville Grotto" as the title of the forum). No other proof that the forum was operating other than a few emails that you had a test forum up.

What's even more curious to me is you never once mentioned to me the existance of this forum when I began administering the NSS Forum. You never mentioned it in any posts on the NSS Forum that I'm aware of, either. It seems to me that if you are running an active national caving forum and you have a new boss on the NSS Forum where you are also a moderator, you'd give them the courtesy of letting them know what you are up to.

While you posted during the first month the NSS Forum was reactivated, you haven't posted in the seven months since. You weren't posting when I sent the report and you haven't since last October. You are still registered and are welcome to post at any time. You have just chosen not to. Like it or not, the NSS Forum is an official arm of the NSS. You, have chosen not to participate. As for other moderators, my report concerned only the most recent moderators, not moderators from years gone by. You can wiggle all you want, but those are the facts.

I note your most frequent NSS complaints are about me and the OVP. Before me, you were mad at the previous forum administrator. I also note those are the same two positions you sought, but did not get. I view anything from you in that matter as just sour grapes.

Wayne all of the contents of your last post was Off Topic. Let me remind you to post to the topic of this thread. If you'd like to discuss another topic then simply create a new thread. If you need help creating a new thread please let us know so we can assist you.

Let 's get this thread back on the topic of "Opinions on RSS-feed".

Back to topic, for those who may not understand the technology Wayne refers to - here is some more information.

What is RSS? "RSS" stands for Really Simple Syndication. RSS is for publishing regular updates to web-based content. Using this standard, web publishers provide updates, such as the latest News Headlines or Blog postings. Meanwhile, consumers (you) use RSS reader applications to collect and monitor your favorite feeds in one place [RSS content from a publisher, viewed in one of these readers, is often called a "feed"]. RSS feeds can be viewed as plain text files, but they are really designed for computer-to-computer communication.

Also some use Feedburner. Did you know Feedburner has an Ad Network?
Feedburner offers its participants (the web publisher) a full range of services such as Revenue-Generating programs in RSS feeds, Track Circulation and also to Track Detailed Reader information. Feedburner participants have an "Analyze’ page for "Ad Stats". The "Ads Stats Dashboard" which shows its participants an estimate of their Earnings since last payment as well as a monthly history by impression, clicks, CTR and Paymet total for the month.

Yeap, and Feedburner participants can place an innocent looking "AD" (aka Email Signature Animator, Signature Box, etc ) at the bottom of their posts in their RSS feed. Also you may note these Ad's, subscription buttons, etc as well as the code being made available to visitors so they can place them on their own website - apparently that is also so some one can make a profit from "your" web site too. Yeap, no doubt in my mind - those who choose to use Feedburner are likely out to make a profit.

For more information:
Feedburner’s Ad Network (FeedBurner offers a full range of services: *Implement Revenue-generating in your RSS Feed(s), * Track Visitor's, * Build Awareness )
Feedburner Enhanced Advertising Services
Feedburner User Agreement( * Payment is received based upon the number of valid revenue-generating Ad impressions, *Clicks or * Transactions displayed and confirmed in the RSS Feed. * Payments will be made to user using PayPal.)

My opinion on RSS feed. I do think RSS is cool if you just want to generate News headlines and it's not a for "pay scheme" and the little icons are cute too. BUT..... RSS highlights just the "forums topics" and not the "contents" of the forum. So one drawback I see to RSS is that cavers may just read the RSS Headlines and may never visit this Forum. In my opinion that is a major point to consider.

Another point I wish to make is that U.S.Cavers Forum is a volunteer effort and we are not here to profit from Our Forum or Our Visitors - nor do we want to! We want Cavers and Visitors to come to the Forum to chat and for information. What we do not want is for visitor's to click on AD's etc, etc, so we can profit from their visits.

This is a caving discussion forum, a free space for cavers to come to chat or just catch up on cave related events and happenings in the caving community. It is NOT a profit making venture and this forum does not track your movements, what you read when you visit, or where you go, like some of the "other" caving forums are doing.



~ When offered an olive branch you have to watch out for the pits! ;D

Darned tooting I'm getting a bit paranoid Kelly. ;D ;D

There's over 11,600 other NSS members not posting on the NSS DB and Wayne keeps singling me out.