L Roebuck
Technical Support
Caving
^V^ Just a caver
Posts: 2,023
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Post by L Roebuck on Dec 30, 2007 11:28:13 GMT -5
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Post by paul snook on Mar 9, 2008 18:46:47 GMT -5
do we have any idea if it has been reported,
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Post by madratdan on Mar 9, 2008 19:15:04 GMT -5
I just went and looked at the link and it says the bidding is over. I have no idea if it sold......I hope not.
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Post by Azurerana on Mar 10, 2008 19:25:02 GMT -5
It doesn't look like it is illegal in Tennessee unless the stal is stolen property: nashvillegrotto.org/tenn_cave_law.pdf I don't see anything in the law prohibiting sale. Ebay policy: "Cave Formations - The sale of speleothems, stalactites and stalagmites taken from caves on any federal land is prohibited by federal law. (See The Federal Cave Resources Protection Act of 1988.) Many states also prohibit the sale and/or removal of speleothems, stalactites and stalagmites taken from caves. Please be sure your item complies with all applicable laws before listing it for sale." There is a provision on Ebay about stolen property -- i.e., that taken without the permission of the owner. It is basically impossible to get a no sale or destruction even by or with permission of the owner clause put into a state law, (some places have, but not many) since that implies restraint of trade by the state on something which you legitimately own, and on the scale of Sunday school to mass mayhem, rape and pillage, selling rocks is pretty far down most non-caver's lists. |
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Post by kenredux on Mar 16, 2008 20:45:06 GMT -5
During my lifetime I regret not have offered two particular cave formations for sale on Ebay.
One: A three foot long aqua colored helictite with an afterglow, billed as "the world's largest helictite" and shaped like a pendant turnip, it hung from the ceiling in Fern Cave near the entryway to "Helictite Heaven" by only a pencil sized stem.
It was beautiful. And I broke it.
My electric light went out, so I reached out to touch this rare and delicate wonder to keep from bumping it but with that slight and careful touch, the world's largest helictite fell to the cave floor.
In a pile. Today I wish that I had stolen the worlds largest helictite and then sold it on Ebay. Maybe then I wouldn't have such a burden of unrelenting guilt.
Two: Me and the Spiders were ridgewalking one day In the early seventies - the Spiders were the much admired vertical gang in the Birmingham Grotto- on that day, somewhere near Valhalla, the head Spider, JB Weldon, found a newly collapsed pit.
Big deal, the pit barely dropped thirty feet but more interestingly the overburden collapse had exposed a hardwood tree - a branching tree covered with a thick layer of calcite.
It was beautiful. And I told JB not to touch it.
But he did and I am glad he did. Exposed to the weather the calcite covered tree would not have lasted long. Behind my back JB brought a little branch of this curiosity back to Birmingham, and later gave a piece to me. I gave my piece to Joel and maybe he has it today.
How does calcite coat a hardwood?
I wish I had stolen the whole damn tree and then sold it on Ebay where today someone somewhere would have it to study.
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Post by Azurerana on Mar 16, 2008 21:51:32 GMT -5
How does calcite coat a hardwood? Calcite will coat anything. Anytime. With no problem. |
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Post by kenredux on Mar 16, 2008 22:20:42 GMT -5
How does calcite coat a hardwood? Calcite will coat anything. Anytime. With no problem. Really now ? Calsite must be saturated postively within a confined atmospheric condition in order to coat anything . Now. Name an open air condition that will coat a tree other the closed air conditions within a cave, sweetheart.  |
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Post by Rebel Rouser on Apr 2, 2008 9:12:35 GMT -5
"I wish that I had stolen the worlds largest helictite and then sold it on Ebay. Maybe then I wouldn't have such a burden of unrelenting guilt."
If you accidently break it then you feel bad. If you break, then steal, then sell on e-bay maybe you run the risk of having the CRAP kicked out of you. See how that works? rebel
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Post by kenredux on Apr 7, 2008 22:12:05 GMT -5
"I wish that I had stolen the worlds largest helictite and then sold it on Ebay. Maybe then I wouldn't have such a burden of unrelenting guilt." If you accidently break it then you feel bad. If you break, then steal, then sell on e-bay maybe you run the risk of having the CRAP kicked out of you. See how that works? rebel Well goodbuddy, where I live in Alabama I risk having the "CRAP" beat our of me every time I walk out the door. And you, goodbuddy, don't seem to understand that an intact helectite is preferable to no helectite.? You don't get it, do you, Rebel Rouser?  |
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Post by Rebel Rouser on Apr 9, 2008 0:53:12 GMT -5
"My electric light went out, so I reached out to touch this rare and delicate wonder to keep from bumping it but with that slight and careful touch, the world's largest helictite fell to the cave floor. In a pile. Today I wish that I had stolen the worlds largest helictite and then sold it on Ebay. Maybe then I wouldn't have such a burden of unrelenting guilt." So you were too close to a beautiful formation when your light malfunctioned and you broke it trying to protect it? Expensive light? Maybe if you didn't get so close to the formation you wouldn't have this "burden of unrelenting guilt" and we would still have the helictite. Learn from the experience....and the lesson is NOT 'steal it and sell it on e-bay'. |
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Post by paul snook on Apr 9, 2008 17:18:47 GMT -5
ken, if you are serious about your feeling towards such irreplaceable beauty, than you are in this field for the wrong reason, we all do this for love of it, and that includes protecting and preserving, for generations to come, if you dont feel the same way, and are willing to brag to all of us that you have no respect for the delicate and fragile underground, then you are setting yourself up to be ridiculed, harassed, blackballed, and from those with a deep seeded passion and extremely protective nature, maybe even assaulted, so i must ask, do you realy feel this way or are you just trying to get a rise?
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Post by paul snook on Apr 9, 2008 17:27:03 GMT -5
Calsite must be saturated postively within a confined atmospheric condition in order to coat anything .
Now. Name an open air condition that will coat a tree other the closed air conditions within a cave, sweetheart
its spelled "CALCITE" and calcite can come in many forms, one such form is called travertine, and it will indeed seep into and all over and around anything in its path of dispursal, as it is a secondary mineral created from disilution of limestone, ie the name flowstone, or calcite flow, when the water travels over a givin object, small traces of the mineral is left behind, over time it builds up, and wha'la, you get calcite coated what-ever
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NZcaver
Beginner
U.S. Caver
Posts: 140
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Post by NZcaver on Apr 10, 2008 20:41:26 GMT -5
ken, if you are serious about your feeling towards such irreplaceable beauty, than you are in this field for the wrong reason, we all do this for love of it, and that includes protecting and preserving, for generations to come, if you dont feel the same way, and are willing to brag to all of us that you have no respect for the delicate and fragile underground, then you are setting yourself up to be ridiculed, harassed, blackballed, and from those with a deep seeded passion and extremely protective nature, maybe even assaulted, so i must ask, do you realy feel this way or are you just trying to get a rise? Cave Bull - I wouldn't take this gentleman's ramblings too seriously if I were you. It seems he likes to play his little games and try to get a rise out of people. He's done it before in other places too, until people got sick of him and he drifted away again.  |
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Post by mark620 on May 22, 2008 19:55:32 GMT -5
One thought/comment
Land owners (with caves on that land) are exempt from cave destruction laws in Tennessee
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Post by Azurerana on May 22, 2008 21:35:46 GMT -5
Calsite must be saturated postively within a confined atmospheric condition in order to coat anything . Now. Name an open air condition that will coat a tree other the closed air conditions within a cave, sweetheart its spelled "CALCITE" and calcite can come in many forms, one such form is called travertine, and it will indeed seep into and all over and around anything in its path of dispursal, as it is a secondary mineral created from disilution of limestone, ie the name flowstone, or calcite flow, when the water travels over a givin object, small traces of the mineral is left behind, over time it builds up, and wha'la, you get calcite coated what-ever I've got a 54 page undergraduate thesis proving that freshwater travertine exists, and why. But most people in karst areas without water softeners don't have to go any further than their sink, toilet or water heater to find "travertine". Thanks for the assist, Paul. I've been rather busy lately... |
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