Do you cave with out permission?

[Bill Greenwald]

Was wondering what the general attitute is about this!

One caver called it turtle rescue caving. "There was a turtle stuck in the cave or at the bottom of the pit so we had to go in and rescure it or it would have died."

I suspect that a number of active cavers today do turtle rescue caving. Don't ask don't tell. because If I ask they will probably say no and then I couldn't cave there.

Since most caves are on private property. It can be a little difficult to call or stop by to try to catch the owner of the cave property at home in advance to get permission. If you get caught most of the time its... "I'm sorry, I didn't know, I won't do it again". (At least not this weekend!) Of course if your stuck in the cave and someone finally finds your body the owner can say the same thing too.

Now how does a caver answer the question without incriminating himself? "How about I one liner....that simply includes: caving area_approx caving trips per year_and permission codes

letter code permission types:
"T"(turtle rescue caving) no permission
"W"(walk up caving) just walked up and asked
"A"(advance permission caving) got permission in advance

Example:
Midwestcaver_(10) trips per year_7As,2Ws,1T
To be honest he did actually rescue a turtle from the pit.

[L Roebuck]

I usually ask permission first or go with a cave trip leader who has been granted permission. ;D

Hey Bill I imagine the " turtle rescue caving" saga probably would not work very well during the winter months.

[TomBarr3]

The rule is simple, don't do it without permission:

You could get shot, chased by hounds or worse, bulls, sued for damages, arrested for trespassing, towed, etc.
It's not always a sorry and sheepishly leaving.
Real issues can and have occured.

Very bad policy no matter how you rationized it, always ask and be polite and nice about it. Butter them up if you really wanna get in. A bottle of wine, whiskey, cookies, pies .....whatever it takes will go a long way. Sit and talk a spell on the porch. Be their friend and they will be yours.

If you want that cave bad enough, work at ensuring you get to go in it. Seal the deal.

Often with that approach, you learn far more about the cave and make friend's, not enemies. Then later you can go in easily and they don't mind.

That helps the NSS and allows folks to continue visiting. We want the owners on our side and conserve the caves.

I've found with many things, a little buttering and perks will allow most folks to allow you in, some have offered cash etc.
The owners will be interested in contacting you then ;D
Walk ups are fine, the approach and social aspects are key there. Not everyone has that ability, so as Lynn suggest, go with someone who is a friend already:)
Then you work on some cave owners in your area and network.


Regards,
Tom Barr- the younger one who was raised in caves

[Bill Greenwald]

So Lynn and TomBarr3 how about a one liner on the subject.
(See...Its tough to get cavers to reply to something like this!)
caving area_approx trips per year__permission code
Thanks, Billgrnwld

[L Roebuck]

billgrnwld said:

So Lynn and TomBarr3 how about a one liner on the subject.
(See...Its tough to get cavers to reply to something like this!)
caving area_approx trips per year__permission code
Thanks, Billgrnwld

Oh I like the one liner method Bill. The only problem I see would be remembering how many caves visited this year. So my one liner would probably look like the following unless I started keeping track at the beginning of each year.

TAGcaver: ? trips per year: ?A,?W,0T

[Rock]

Being the good Samaritans we are cavers practice many unselfish acts of kindness for landowners. ;D

turtle rescue caving
snake rescue caving
cow rescue caving
goat rescue caving
cat rescue caving
favorite hat rescue caving
pig rescue caving

southcaver:avg32tripspy:7A,20W,5T