Camera opinion

[Tony Anders]

Hey all you camera bugs out here.

I am wanting an opinion on this camera.
www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2427214&CatId=2452

I have never used an Olympus so I really do not know if this is a good deal or not.

I am trying to get the little women to 'allow' ole dad to purchase a camera. I know $700 is alot for a camera but this one comes with 2 lens and and looks like it may be a decent camera.

I won't be taking it on many deep deep cave trips but will be using it on our ridge walking, canoe trips and other outdoor activities.

Anyone here had dealing with these cameras please let me know the quality of pictures.

Thanks again for everyones help.

[Azurerana]

For many years I had an Olympus film rangefinder, and liked it very much.

On the digital side I've had an Olympus D-535 3.2MP and just got an FE-180 6 MP point and shoot for Christmas. They have pretty good optics. Both the 3.2 and the 6 have been used professionally--that is, I've sold the photos which they take.

I don't know anything about the Evolt, itself but I can recommend the camera brand. I would prefer any digicam made by a camera company over a Sony, Panasonic, or camera made by an electronics company.

Look on CNET. com for reviews. They do both official and customer reviews.

[L Roebuck]

I have a Nikon D-100 so really can't give much of an opinion about the Olympus camera. From others I have heard the Olympus brand is a good camera but I don't recall any opinions concerning the Evolt E-500.
It would be a good idea to check online for some comparisons before you decide to buy. Also you will also want to purchase a good flash. The Pop-Up Built-In Flash is ok but it won't even cut-the-mustard in a cave.

BTW I do take my Nikon caving. ;D

[Brian Roebuck]

Tony,
There are many cameras out there to choose from. If you are interested in doing flash cave photography you want a camera that can be mounted on a tripod and the shutter opened up as long as you like ("Bulb" setting). Many digitals do not have this feature and you are stuck using what you can get with the built in flash and some slave flashes.

You might consider a used Nikon or Cannon Digital SLR camera instead. They can use a wide variety of lenses and have all sorts of great features useful in cave photgraphy as well as outdoors etc. I have seen SLR Digital camera bodies like Lynns D100 for about $400 used. Couple that with a nice wide angle zoom lens made by Tamron or even Nikon for a couple hundred and you have a very nice camera that you can use for years. Also all the money you invest in lenses, extras, flashes, etc you get to keep since you upgrade by buying just a new camera body. That way you get to know the camera controls, how the lenses work best, how the flashes work with them, and only get a few new features and better resolution when you upgrade to the next camera body. Other all-in-one digitals are virtually throw aways once they get old enough and you pay for lenses and all the extras all over again when you upgrade them.

Just some things to think about...

[Azurerana]

The Evolt E-500 is a body plus interchangeable lens system.
tp://www.dpreview.com/news/0509/05092604olympuse500.asp#lens

Looks like there are 16 different lenses out there to fit this camera.

The fact that it takes both xD and Compact Flash memory cards is a plus, in case you're traveling w/out a laptop, and have to purchase some.

Downside is a rather small LCD screen, and only a 95% through the lens viewfinder. This might not seem like much, but sometimes knowing where the edges are counts!

The battery situation looks good CL 123 or CR 123 Lithiums seem to be easy to find and relatively inexpensive, as backups to the standard LBH-1 rechargeable. You will find that digital cameras *eat* batteries. If you settle on this camera, get an extra LBH-1-- the CR 123 Lithiums are probably available most places you can look for batteries.

The Olympus menu system and 'scene' system for semi-automatic shooting (but with some preferences-- high speed for sports, long exposure for fireworks, etc. ) is intuitive once you get used to it. It takes about a day or so for you to figure out that that "sports" setting can be used to shoot moving water, and the 'fireworks' setting is good for show caves.

The lack of an open shutter Bulb setting may be a bummer if you're used to doing Bulb with regular SLR, but I understand people are doing 12 second exposures and sandwiching them in the computer for some pretty good results.

Camera has a hot shoe for off the camera flash.

I'd check to be sure, but my cheap point n shoots have tripod mounts, and would expect this one does.

You might look around for a cheaper price. I found this camera for $100-$200 less from other Net camera dealers.

Memory cards are not included.

Here is a link to the C-Net reviews.
tinyurl.com/ytgqsk
Hmmm. The experts give it a 7.1-- the users give it a 9.3 of 10. Read the user reviews-- they are the people who have been playing with it.

I think I would go to a camera store near you and check one out before plunking down the money, but If you can get one for $550 or so (it's possible--look around) I don't think your wife has a kick...just take some pics of your boys for her!

[Azurerana]

Just in case you all want to know why I think myself qualified to do a technical review of a camera--
I grew up in a darkroom (my dad had one downstairs in the basement for black and white, color print, slide and Cibachromes) and I had my own 35mm camera at age 14-- (before that, it was a Brownie Hawkeye 126 size film, that we got off the back of a Nestle's Quick Box when I was about 8. I left that camera on a rock at Big Spring when I was 13, and still regret it.)

I smell glacial acetic acid, and think of my childhood.

Have had a Chinon-35, a Ricoh ESP-Sport (that one went swimming permanently in the Jacks Fork River in 1998) a Pentax WR-90 (which I still have) and the two P&S digitals. Not to mention 3-4 of my dads 35s I inherited. Eugene has had a succession of personal Pentax K-1000s, as well as access to borrow Hasslblads, a 4x5 Speed Graphic, a Nikon SLR and now, a couple of Nikon DSLRs--one is a 10.2MP, which takes lousy photos, and has way way too many settings to mess with. I've never used a DSLR, but he's been griping that the one he wants with lenses would cost about $1800. (Down from $3000 a couple years ago).

BTW Tamron lenses are really good, as are some other 3rd party lenses. Just make sure whatever mount will fit the camera you have. One of the reasons EV and I married was all our cameras at the time took Pentax K-mounts. (Both the Ricoh and Chinon were K-Mount. ) I still get upset when I think about dumping that canoe, and losing the Ricoh.

[L Roebuck]

azurerana said:

Just in case you all want to know why I think myself qualified to do a technical review of a camera--
I grew up in a darkroom (my dad had one downstairs in the basement for black and white, color print, slide and Cibachromes) and I had my own 35mm camera at age 14-- (before that, it was a Brownie Hawkeye 126 size film, that we got off the back of a Nestle's Quick Box when I was about 8. I left that camera on a rock at Big Spring when I was 13, and still regret it.)

I smell glacial acetic acid, and think of my childhood.

Have had a Chinon-35, a Ricoh ESP-Sport (that one went swimming permanently in the Jacks Fork River in 1998) a Pentax WR-90 (which I still have) and the two P&S digitals. Not to mention 3-4 of my dads 35s I inherited. Eugene has had a succession of personal Pentax K-1000s, as well as access to borrow Hasslblads, a 4x5 Speed Graphic, a Nikon SLR and now, a couple of Nikon DSLRs--one is a 10.2MP, which takes lousy photos, and has way way too many settings to mess with. I've never used a DSLR, but he's been griping that the one he wants with lenses would cost about $1800. (Down from $3000 a couple years ago).

BTW Tamron lenses are really good, as are some other 3rd party lenses. Just make sure whatever mount will fit the camera you have. One of the reasons EV and I married was all our cameras at the time took Pentax K-mounts. (Both the Ricoh and Chinon were K-Mount. ) I still get upset when I think about dumping that canoe, and losing the Ricoh.

Well it sure sounds like you are qualified to be a reviewer, Az.

Exactly which camera is it that Eugene has that is the Nikon 10.2MP that takes lousy photos? I am thinking of upgrading and so would be interested in more information on that camera.

[Brian Roebuck]

Tony,
Here's a link to the used camera place I was talking about. A guy on another forum recommended them but so far I have not done business with them.

www.keh.com

[Azurerana]

pretzlgirl said:

Exactly which camera is it that Eugene has that is the Nikon 10.2MP that takes lousy photos? I am thinking of upgrading and so would be interested in more information on that camera.

This is one downside of living alone--stuff your husband says gets mixed up. What he really said was the Coolpix 880 (not a dSLR but a rangefinder with accessory lenses) was the bad camera.

He's just spec'd out, tested and and ordered some D80s at work.

[Innermostphoto]

Based on your described usage the Olympus should do just fine however, a good comparison camera would be a Canon Digital Rebel or whatever Nikon’s entry DSLR is. You can be sure the lens that comes with any of these entry level cameras are crap and you are better off buying body only and a quality lens separate. As a current user of Olympus equipment, I have been impressed with their camera bodies. I never dreamed a die hard Nikon user turned die hard Canon would end up with three Olympus cameras! I use them all underground but keep the Canon outside…. just too risky. The Nikon Coolpix series is considered to be an advanced level camera trapping the medium between SLR and PHD (push here dummy) cameras. I know Bunnell uses the Coolpix in some model form quite extensively. Advanced level cameras appear to be on their way out unfortunately as the market for them has been low.

That price for the E-volt is wayyyy to high. You can get the body only through B and H for $424. www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=6222&A=details&Q=&sku=405344&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation
This is a reputable company to buy from out of NY but a word to the wise there are several rip off companies thriving out of NYC.

bob biddix
Innermost Imagery
www.innermostimagery.com

[Innermostphoto]

What? A Nikon 10.2mp camera that takes lousy photos? I think not!!! I can buy the most expensive paint brush in the world but that does not make me a better painter!

bob biddix
Innermost Imagery
www.innermostimagery.com

[Brian Roebuck]

innermostphoto said:

Based on your described usage the Olympus should do just fine however, a good comparison camera would be a Canon Digital Rebel or whatever Nikon’s entry DSLR is. You can be sure the lens that comes with any of these entry level cameras are crap and you are better off buying body only and a quality lens separate. As a current user of Olympus equipment, I have been impressed with their camera bodies. I never dreamed a die hard Nikon user turned die hard Canon would end up with three Olympus cameras! I use them all underground but keep the Canon outside…. just too risky. The Nikon Coolpix series is considered to be an advanced level camera trapping the medium between SLR and PHD (push here dummy) cameras. I know Bunnell uses the Coolpix in some model form quite extensively. Advanced level cameras appear to be on their way out unfortunately as the market for them has been low.

That price for the E-volt is wayyyy to high. You can get the body only through B and H for $424. www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=6222&A=details&Q=&sku=405344&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation
This is a reputable company to buy from out of NY but a word to the wise there are several rip off companies thriving out of NYC.

bob biddix
Innermost Imagery
www.innermostimagery.com

Good advice Bob,
I've been lookibng over Nikon's stuff lately and just to complete the thread their entry level camera DSLR is the D50 right now. There is a new D40 DSLR that is supposed to be easier to use (ie less features) and higher resolution coming out soon (you can pre-order them now).

It''s interesting that you have chosen Olympus equipment for cave photography. Would you mind sharing your experiences and reasons for this?

You are also correct about NYC rip-off camera companies. B&H is indeed a good one as is Adorama which I have done business with. They are competitive in prices with each other.

[Azurerana]

Bob,

You probably skipped the correction posted by me on 3/9. The Coolpix is only an 8 mp camera. His major gripe with it is for the niche it was supposed to fill (above point and shoot, below full professional grade) it is way too complex for most of his clients used to Nikon film SLRs on full-auto , with too many parameters to be set manually by the operator, most of whom are not photographers, nor do they understand electronics. The other complaint was that the rangefinder was sufficiently off the mark of what the finished photo would be that the framing of photos was often a disappointment. The supplier also listed it as an SLR, when it was not. (not Nikon-- the supplier to the camera contract) and hence it was a disappointment when it arrived. It also was incredibly slow, and required much tripod work. As I mentioned elsewhere too-- he's had 30+ years of semi to professional photographic work himself-- and I do believe if the Coolpix were his personal equipment, he'd have pitched it over a waterfall some time ago.

Because of these drawbacks, many of his clients went back to shooting with their personal point and shoot (between 2 and 3 mp) digital cameras, which was unacceptable.

No one knows how the D80s will be working out yet.

[Azurerana]

I can't speak to other high-end brands, having never had the money for Nikon or Canon equipment, but as I recounted here
Earlier thread Olympus seems to ruggedize their digital cameras reasonably well. The Olympus compact rangefinder I had earlier in my life got banged on rocks, dropped, packed on top of, fleft below freezing and damp (not soaked) and never glitched until the metering system gave out from overuse. (I could still use it on manual, and with flash, but the auto setting was messed). This was after about 15 years of use as my primary camera. It's still down the basement, with my manual typewriter I will never give up.

[Innermostphoto]

Well, I haven't entirely switched to Olympus as I still use Canon DSLR's for paid shoots but what got me on Olympus was several reasons. Like the last thread the Olympus body is tougher than most other cameras and I like the superwide feature offered on the advanced level cameras. I used to carry a 19mm, 28mm, and a 105mm lens but now all I need is the one camera that does it all. Jonathan G. introduced me to the Olympus line while on a shoot and after looking at the functions, lens groups, and incredible battery life I was hooked. I ended up buying the C7070 and the C8080 to use specifically for cave photography. Neither are currently manufactured anymore. Typical fast moving technology huh?

I still think Nikon makes the best glass for all manual film cameras back in the day and Canon's innovation with IS and USM lenses in today's market are superb. [BTW only buy Canon L lenses] Olympus has offered an inexpensive quality camera that I can take underground and is reasonably durable. Still, the electronics can't take this punishment forever and it too, will be destroyed by the cave.
So far two digital cameras have been eaten by caves but luckily one was still in the warranty phase. If you don't want to run the risk of destroying your equipment then leave it outside...but it is awfully hard to take cave pictures that way!


bob biddix
Innermost Imagery
www.innermostimagery.com





>>It''s interesting that you have chosen Olympus equipment for cave photography. Would you mind sharing your experiences and reasons for this?>>

[Brian Roebuck]

Thanks for the reply Bob. It does make sense to carry less expensive gear into caves for the extreme environment and abuse it presents. You end up taking so much effort to protect an expensive camera on a cave trip it almost isn't worth it sometimes. Maybe as DSLRs get cheaper we can all use older model bodies as our sacrificial cave cameras while using the shiny new bodies above ground.

I'll have to look intt the Olympus models you mentioned. One might find some decent used models here and there.